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CSBurks
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21 Nov 2013, 8:59 pm

Mamselle wrote:
CSBurks wrote:
Unless he went through a full conversion, which requires a Mikveh (a ritual bath) and a circumcision (or ritual circumcision, if already mutilated).

The movie doesn't quite go into full detail.

Jews generally discourage conversion because there are so many rules to follow, and they don't want you to screw up.


I can't agree with your last statement. I think Jews want conversion to be done only after careful study, because of the faith's strong tradition of learning and knowledge.

I know that Orthodox rabbis will only consider a convert Jewish if he or she converts through the Orthodox branch of the faith. I don't think Conservative or Reform are that picky.


I'm sure there are multiple reasons for discouraging conversions.

And, yes, other movements are less strict than the Frum.



cleverintrovert316
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21 Nov 2013, 9:02 pm

Oh I wasn't planning on converting. I'm only 14, and I'm not extremely religious. I go to church, but I believe in evolution and the Big Bang. I've always had a fixation on family histories and genetics, so I was wondering if you guys thought some of my ancestors could've been Jewish. One of my good friends thinks this as well about her family, and we've talked about it multiple times.



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21 Nov 2013, 9:17 pm

My story is similar. I have Jewish ancestry on my mother's side. My last relative who was 100% Jewish was my maternal great-grandfather, and, according to what I heard from other relatives, he kept his being Jewish a secret from his family until he was on his deathbed.

Like the others have said, if your mother is not Jewish, then neither are you. The only way you could call yourself a Jew would be if you converted. Still, you can always claim Jewish ancestry. That's what I do, but I don't feel any connection with Jewish culture, mostly because my last Jewish relative died long before I was born.


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cleverintrovert316
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21 Nov 2013, 9:20 pm

Oh, ok. I think I heard that somewhere, about only being considered Jewish if your mother was. By the way, I love your meme. :P



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21 Nov 2013, 10:09 pm

Jewish customs dictate that if the mother was a Jew, then so are her children.

In truth, however, if any of your ancestors were Jews, then you are Jewish.

Again, Mazel Tov!


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cleverintrovert316
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21 Nov 2013, 10:54 pm

I'm not 100% sure about my mom, because she was adopted. However, we discovered that she had German, English, and Italian ancestry, so I'm doubting she had Jewish relatives.



naturalplastic
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22 Nov 2013, 12:01 am

cleverintrovert316 wrote:
Okay, a lot of the ancestors on my paternal grandfather's side came from Germany. However, when I was doing family research a few years ago, I discovered that I had a relative with the surname "Feuerstein". Also, I have multiple relatives with the surname "Winkler". My dad agreed with me when I briefly brought up the topic. With first names, I've found "Paul", "Elizabeth", "Joseph", and "Jacob". Finally, (I'm not trying to sound stereotypical.) a lot of my relatives on my paternal grandfather's side have black/brown hair and brown eyes. People have asked me if I'm Jewish before, and I'm finding a lot of evidence toward this. What do you guys think?


Actually there is not much evidence there. I know that the actor Henry Winkler was Jewish. Dont know how common the name is among gentiles. But all of the first names are common gentile names.I hope that you're not under the impression that ether of the two Queen Elizabeths were Jewish ( though Liz Taylor was).



cleverintrovert316
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22 Nov 2013, 7:19 am

Yeah, I knew that. I just thought it was odd that there was an Elizabeth in Germany. Also, her last name was Winkler, and her father was Joseph. I found that interesting.



Mamselle
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22 Nov 2013, 9:00 am

naturalplastic wrote:
cleverintrovert316 wrote:
Okay, a lot of the ancestors on my paternal grandfather's side came from Germany. However, when I was doing family research a few years ago, I discovered that I had a relative with the surname "Feuerstein". Also, I have multiple relatives with the surname "Winkler". My dad agreed with me when I briefly brought up the topic. With first names, I've found "Paul", "Elizabeth", "Joseph", and "Jacob". Finally, (I'm not trying to sound stereotypical.) a lot of my relatives on my paternal grandfather's side have black/brown hair and brown eyes. People have asked me if I'm Jewish before, and I'm finding a lot of evidence toward this. What do you guys think?


Actually there is not much evidence there. I know that the actor Henry Winkler was Jewish. Dont know how common the name is among gentiles. But all of the first names are common gentile names.I hope that you're not under the impression that ether of the two Queen Elizabeths were Jewish ( though Liz Taylor was).


I know a family named Winkler and they are Christians--Lutheran, I think.

And Liz Taylor was a convert, she was not born to a Jewish mother.



ruveyn
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22 Nov 2013, 12:24 pm

Mamselle wrote:
I'm Jewish. If your mother wasn't Jewish, you're not, according to strict interpretation of Jewish law.


That is Rabinic Law. In biblical times the religion descended from the father's side.

ruveyn



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22 Nov 2013, 1:07 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Mamselle wrote:
I'm Jewish. If your mother wasn't Jewish, you're not, according to strict interpretation of Jewish law.


That is Rabinic Law. In biblical times the religion descended from the father's side.

ruveyn


Did that change due to rape and concubinage leading to ethnic admixture, along with fear that a Gentile father would have no connection to Judaism?


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22 Nov 2013, 1:25 pm

I found an ancestor with the name Samuel Eastman,his daughter was named Sarah.I have no idea if they were Jewish or not,but it was on my maternal side.Some last names that end in man are,some are not.It would be interesting to research that further.


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22 Nov 2013, 2:48 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Mamselle wrote:
I'm Jewish. If your mother wasn't Jewish, you're not, according to strict interpretation of Jewish law.


That is Rabinic Law. In biblical times the religion descended from the father's side.

ruveyn


Did that change due to rape and concubinage leading to ethnic admixture, along with fear that a Gentile father would have no connection to Judaism?


Someone told me that the change was made because "at the time Judae was under foriegn occupying armies", which would makes sense.

When that was exactly I dont know.



cleverintrovert316
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22 Nov 2013, 4:23 pm

Yeah, I've always been confused about the "-man" ending. Isn't it a suffix in lots of places?



ruveyn
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22 Nov 2013, 5:11 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Mamselle wrote:
I'm Jewish. If your mother wasn't Jewish, you're not, according to strict interpretation of Jewish law.


That is Rabinic Law. In biblical times the religion descended from the father's side.

ruveyn


Did that change due to rape and concubinage leading to ethnic admixture, along with fear that a Gentile father would have no connection to Judaism?


Someone told me that the change was made because "at the time Judae was under foriegn occupying armies", which would makes sense.

When that was exactly I dont know.


After the Babylonian Captivity the rules concerning descent were changed since the father of a child could not be definitely known but the mother could. Since the Babylonian Captivity the main rule book for Jews is the Talmud, not the TNKH (Hebrew Scriptures).

ruveyn



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22 Nov 2013, 5:14 pm

cleverintrovert316 wrote:
Yeah, I've always been confused about the "-man" ending. Isn't it a suffix in lots of places?


Names ending with 'man' are common in some parts of Germany and don't always indicate Jewishness.

Also, Old Testament names are common in some non-Jewish communities. They're traditional in the community on my Mum's side of the family - nonconformist Christians from Wales or the western bits of England. I have one myself because I'm named after my maternal great-grandmother. Also, they sometimes just happen to be in fashion. Noah was in 10 years ago and Daniel and Sarah were popular when I was born. I think Samuel is fairly fashionable right now. There's always a few OT names in fashion in any given period going back centuries. I think the only really giveaway names are things like Moses (unless you're black - another ethnic group that traditionally likes OT names) or Esther.


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