Acceptance of Things as They Are: A disturbing trend

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The thing is I have more questions than actual answers. How can I truthfully provide constructive suggestions when I know there are things that I do not know that I do not know?

The main thing I desire is simply to understand. I know not nor understand not. The more I attempt to understand the more aware I become of my ignorance. To ask me to provide constructive suggestions w/o a comprehensive understanding is to invite fallacy and error. It would ask me to pretend I know more than I really do. Would I not be dishonest? Even if I do provide constructive suggestions if I am in error please show me why.



I do agree and in addition I do wonder and agonize if I am correct in the things I say about society and many things. My main question is how do I live my life in a noble way with everyone else especially if others are not so noble and ignobility seems to be the norm?

I am not sure, but I think you misunderstood me. As described further, by man created workplace rules, are things that were created by humans. So these are definitely things that are part of the stuff, that can be changed by humans and so dont need to be accepted. Laws, governments, societies, all of this are things that are manmade and so can and should be influenced by us. Democracy means to accept if a majority of people actually thinks otherwise then we do, it does not mean, that you should stop trying to convince others of your opinion, so that it maybe becomes the opinion of the majority.

A big problem today is that society is so nihilistic. Just look at the last great age of reform. The progressive movement of the early 20th century was driven by white, middle class, Christian women.

Real reform requires moral outrage.

On an encouraging note, I like what the new Pope said recently:
http://www.billmoyers.com/2013/11/26/po ... m-tyranny/



Change is possible, but it will mean that people of good will, theist and non-theist, will need to band together on common goals to get things done...

The problem is, too many on the secular left would never consider an alliance with a church for anything. So, the bad guys win.

I find the serenity prayer to be somewhat insulting for my situation, as you cannot find serenity in gender dysphoria, whether socially, of the body in general, or of the genitals. I am fighting fighting fighting to get sex reassignment surgery covered or paid for by myself and others who need it, and I am battling against this society's belittling of our needs, however impossible it may seem sometimes.

I'm not sure what sort of thing you're talking about here, do you have a specific example you could give?
In general though, if I know I don't understand something very well, I do try to look into it more before complaining about it.


It can certainly be annoying, that's for sure. But it helps me to keep in mind that society's general views of what's moral and immoral aren't always accurate. If I know something isn't right that society says is right, I either won't abide by it, or in some cases if I do have to abide by it (like when I don't think the legal system is right about something), at least not condone it and usually complain about it. Like I said, I'll play the game, but that doesn't mean I won't criticize the rules as I play it.

Maybe the understanding of it is completely opposite due to cultural background, but actually the serenity prayer is about acceptance of things that are, AND the courage to work on the things that you can work on.

As you say yourself, you CAN work on your gender. So in your case the serenity prayer, does NOT tell you to accept something that you CAN change, but in the opposite tells you to not give up on acchieving something, that you CAN acchieve, as you say yourself.

Thats f*****g cold outside where I live: THIS is something that I need to accept, and where bothering and whining around simply is a waste of time. That I need to pee right now. But things that are available for money, that is acchieved by humans, are definitely not part of "things human cannot influence".

The serenity prayer does not involve one lines, it involves three lines. And in the end it says, to not waste your effort on whining and bothering, but instead use your time about thinking, what you actually CAN AND SHOULD DO. Its not about telling you to give up, but in the opposite it tells you to actually plan your lief and stand up for your opinion.

By all means, change should be encouraged, but only if it's beneficial for practically everyone and not simply intended to serve one's ego. I don't agree with rebelling just for the sake of it.

Its not about rebelling out of the cause of rebelling. Do you acchieve something by ranting around like a three year old? Nope, absolutely noone will listen to that, and that will have as less effect as useless bitching around or whining.

Its the opposite: To think if I only want to whine and b***h around which acchieves actually nothing. And if that is so, then simply accept that I only want to whine and b***h around out of no cause, which brings me nothing, and so I can as well give up on doing so.

Or if something really disturbs me. But then instead of uselessly whining around and bitching around, I should instead focus my thought on how to acchieve that in an constructive way. Which steps can I do. Is it something acchieved by money? Then think about options to acchieve that, and if I am willing to give the effort for that options. Is is about something political: Then which options do I have to inform other people about it, to get a folk poll and have a folk election about it?

Its simply about planning your ressources seriously. What are the things I really want to achhieve, that I would be willing to show the needed effort for acchieving it? What is stuff that I wannabe acchieve and waste time and effort about whining and ranting around, that I would like that, when actually I am not willing to do more then that = actually I am not really interested in acchieving that. Then thats wasted ressources, that I can spare and instead use for things that I DO really want to acchieve.

The end and main line of the serenity prayer is about wisdom and knowledge = planning and thinking wisely. Which is quiet the opposite from rebelling out of the sake of it. If I do so, then I want convince many people of that opinion of mine. So it will lead to nothing. So thats a waste of my ressources.

Sounds like the kind of Garbage the Chinese government would spew out to their people. This is the same kind of crap ultra rich and powerful people in America like to say. "Life isn't fair. Accept your position...and accept that we have power over you and there's nothing you can do about it".
I have zero tolerance for this kind of garbage. I'd like to hear this from someone who has the short end of the stick and has been screwed over by others his whole life. And if I did hear it from such a person I would think that person was pretty weak and pathetic.

The only reason there is evil in the world is because too many good men sit on their fat ass all day long and do nothing about it.

They can't be so good then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unknown_kn ... own_knowns

It would never have occurred to me that one had to have salesman ship type skills in order to obtain a job. There would be no way that I could research this out since the requirement was made known to me until a certain time period in my life. It never would have occurred to me to even ask questions or look anything up whatsoever since I didn't know that I didn't have what was required and I could not look it up since I never knew it was required in the first place. I've always thought ability and the degree was enough and I never knew until it was to late that this was not enough. There was no way I knew I needed to improve myself since I did not conceive that I even needed improving and thought I had enough and was taught all that I needed to know.

The thing is all of this is well and good. People including the average Joe would have the desire to listen to what one has to say. If people are not interested it doesn't matter how much planning one does, how the resources are used or what logic he uses even if it is sound.

I do not know if you read Steven Covey's book Seven Habits of Highly Effective People or not but Covey discusses The Circle of Influence and the Circle of Concern. He makes the assumption that one can always expand his circle of influence when the truth is they may not be able to without other people's help, guidance and resources. You come from Germany right? I don't know what the beliefs and customs of Germany are but here you're pretty much on your own. You're expected to pull yourself by your own bootstraps and you're not supposed to need anyone's help. Our culture believes that one is in control of his own life and destiny People here believe that if something negative happens to you or you're in poverty than it is your fault. When I observe reality and run simulations it makes on sense even though there is some truth to it.

I have asked various people both on here and IRL how they come to their conclusions. Based upon their responses including the ones from Adb from the other thread I believe it is safe to make my conclusions. They're parroting the party line without putting as much thought to it. They're parroting what they have been raised up to believe without questioning the beliefs themselves. People are emotionally invested in their beliefs. It is a part of people's identity and who they are. There is no critical thought to these beliefs whatsoever but are considered inerrant and treated as though they're divine and coming down from heaven itself. The beliefs are almost like a religion and have cult-like properties. The beliefs are considered scared unto themselves.

So, what do I desire for myself and others? For certain people including myself to be successful we would need help to do so including but not limited to guidance and resources. By the nature of American society it won't happen. People would have to critically think through their beliefs and accept that the strictness of their thinking is false and their beliefs are only somewhat true meaning some people cannot succeed without help and assistance to do so. It will not happen because of the exaltation and sacredness that people feel towards these beliefs. Those who need help and assistance will not receive it.

I believe the things that made America great will be America's undoing.

Last edited by cubedemon6073 on 30 Nov 2013, 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

Hey, cubedemon, if you ever get the chance, grab a hold of the following book and have fun reading it:

http://www.amazon.com/Influence-Psychol ... 006124189X

This book will disturb you even more but will shed light on some of the things you question about people within the context of social life.

I have read parts of the preview online. You're right the book so far does disturb me even more. Not only does it shed light on some of the things I question it sheds light on myself and the way I was raised. Reasoning, critical thinking and logic was nurtured into me. When I think about the way I think it is a part of my own unconscious programming. I think my Asperger's heightens it to a more extreme level.

I think I may understand why the culture of America has so many inconsistencies. It is because they have an unconscious programming they do not think outside of or even realize they're following. They don't think through these things on an intellectual and conscious level.

I knew there was a logical fallacy for this but I never knew what it was called.

http://utminers.utep.edu/omwilliamson/E ... lacies.htm

As this website says it is called Essentializing.

When people say this is the way it is, life is not fair, and this is the real world they're committing the fallacy of Essentializing.