What do you think of micronations?

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I rule my small queendom.Don't care if I'm recognized.

I like the idea of my own micronation consisting of me.

There is actually a UN criteria that you need to satisfy, but i am too lazy to google it.

True. However in theory, if you bought a sufficient quantity of land, and fulfilled the international criteria it isnt beyond the realm of possibility that it could happen.

Heck, new countries are being formed even now. Montenegro and South Sudan for example.

That real estate problem is exactly why modern would-be micronationeers these days are looking sea ward.

You all could have bought the Sea Wise Giant before it was scraped last year. That condemned tanker (still the largest ship ever built) was five city blocks longs. Would make a great ritzy 'gated community'- that wouldnt need to be gated because it floats out at sea beyond the three mile limit. And you could sail it up and down the coast to follow the sunny seasons. Populate it with high tech geeks producing technology for export- maybe it would work.

Or you could invade and squat in abandoned offshore oil rigs in the gulf.

Do you mean this?

"In international law, the Montevideo Convention on the Right and Duties of States sets down the criteria for statehood in article 1: The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications: (a) a permanent population; (b) a defined territory; (c) government; and (d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states." [Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micronation]

Same way Bitcoins have purchasing power.

This brings up (all joking aside) an important point of why franchise-states will succeed much faster than micronations. In order to FORM a nation, you have to have a "where" and a "how." You can start with a simple compound on old farmland for a few million $ and gradually expand from there. You need some incentive (or leverage) for recognition upon secession from your host country. It's one thing if you're sitting on a nuke. The likelihood of that or of mustering an independent army that can face-off against a superpower is suicidally slim.

Which is WHY I advocate for a franchise-state. It's a global capitalist model that makes national borders an obsolete relic. My CSA would ideally thrive in the Asian backwoods but likely not thrive anywhere else. However, you end up with a situation in which you might have a Neo-Beijing parked right next to Östereicherburg in suburban (real) Memphis, TN. Or maybe in Seattle you'd have a Neo-Pyonyang next to Neo-Seoul, with gangland in the DMZ. They could both renegotiate an armistice in which they mutually contract out DMZ enforcement to the Crips. It would get interesting when, say MS13 decides to move in to compete for DMZ contracts, so you end up with, say, MS13 defending the North Korean side and the Crips defending the South Korean side. There would be regular DMZ skirmishes that you DON'T see in the real one, but you know the Koreans on both sides would get some good laughs out of it.

It's not the same thing a bitcoin. Nations need to be recognised, otherwise their passports are useless and nations won't negotiate with them.

Precisely why franchise-states are a more workable solution. You don't NEED international recognition. All you need is enough money to purchase land in whatever nation will agree to let you set up shop.

There might be issues relating to visiting a franchise due to terms of citizenship in one brand or another, so some franchises may require passports from other franchises they have treaties with, some sort of recognition agreement. Depending on the franchise-nationality (brand name), some citizens may be banned from local franchises or from an entire franchise-nation. If you cuss Dear Leader Minto Li Il in Neo-Pyongyang San Francisco, you might not only get expelled from NPSF, but you'd be prevented from passing the NPNY checkpoint as well.

My proposed CSA franchise would be based on a confederation model, which means your terms of residency would be franchise-independent. If you get kicked out of CSA-Cambodia, that doesn't necessarily mean you couldn't move to CSA-Havana (personally, I think the Cubans would be especially friendly towards us).

Ahem. Anyway, I'd quite like to see stateless governments - micronations that possess proper, effective governments, without possessing a territory. So, they'd provide their citizenry with assistance, as well as verify their identity and all the other things people rely on the existing state governments to do. You don't need territory to do that, see governments-in-exile.

I want to see serious micronations...

I just don't see that happening. Historically governments in exile have been in exile for a reason. The French monarchy was an exercise in futility.

Corporations are already self-governing and don't necessarily hold territory. What would be the difference between a corporation and a stateless government? Isn't "stateless government" a contradiction in terms?

Franchise-states are an attempt to resolve the inherent need for a state to hold and control territory with the need for conventional governments to exist and maintain their own borders. Native American tribes already exist as states-within-a-state. Franchise-states wouldn't be that much different in governance than tribal communities. They'd just be corporately-sponsored. They'd be hypothetically welcome within any host country since internal laws couldn't come into conflict with external laws of the conventional host state. And no host state would attack them because their security forces would be too small to constitute a significant threat. The down side for a conventional nation is a franchise-state that does really well might pose a significant threat to the host nation-state if enlistment in the franchise security force carried more incentive than in the national armed forces, drawing military participation away from the host nation. Franchises would initially rely on the police forces, both civilian and military, of host nation-states, or they could (particularly smaller start-ups) contract out their security. If you could convince street gangs to organize well enough to incorporate, they'd be perfectly suited for the job.

My proposed CSA franchise would ideally militarize EVERY citizen. How this would work out in a real-world situation, admittedly, might be sketchy. I haven't put THAT much deep thought into it.

The underpinnings of franchise-states already exist, btw. Consider Chinatowns and Little Italys in major metropolitan areas. You already have suburban gated communities. Franchise-states would in effect be slightly larger, themed gated communities in undeveloped sub-suburban areas where property values are already low as are property taxes. You could do the same in inner cities with a concerted effort at gentrification on a MEGA scale. All you need is a large enough number of investors who are just crazy or stupid enough to try to pull it off.

My idea would be to set up something either within or adjacent to a Communist economy to take advantage of cheap/free labor opportunities (I'm a capitalist, incidentally). The taxes would be hella high, but I'm counting on a tradeoff in profits from exports. Expanding my franchise to other nation-states would create ports in which to sell products and services globally. Since the corporation as a whole would be based on a confederation model, there is a pronounced freedom for franchisees to adapt the corporate model to the local culture and economy. The New Virginia colony in Colorado, for instance, may not do so well growing tobacco for export. The marijuana trade, however…

I've been toying with the idea of human trafficking and am fully aware of global attitudes towards slav…um, I mean, involuntary servitude. Each franchise would retain a tremendous amount of autonomy, so they'd be responsible for allowing/not allowing things they find questionable at the franchise owner's discretion. All we do at corporate would be to simply provide the tools and collect licensing fees. For the most part it would be a libertarian paradise, though conceivably an individual franchise could opt for an alternative model such as socialism.

I'm pretty sure most communists don't want to give free stuff to (literal) capitalists. Your gona have to barter for goods. If you try to start a busness here, there is the high possiblity we will liberate/expropriate it, and we don't approve of cops on our soil.

Wow. AngelRho is really on a roll today.

I thought about that. That is, admittedly an issue. However, I see franchise-states ideally as forming symbiotic relationships with conventional nation-states. After all, we would still have to pay YOU tribute/taxes to justify our existence on your soil. Likewise, nation-states can themselves get in on the action. For instance, the Chinese government could enforce licensing agreements through international courts and trade agreements such that they have EXCLUSIVE rights to a franchise modeled on Chinese government and culture. They'd have to beat a democratic variant to the punch, but it could be done. Chi-Comm franchises would have to sign all their profits directly over to a bureau office back in Beijing, seek approval from same for policy-changes, etc. Franchisees could actually PUBLICLY exploit the image of the corrupt local official by taking his own wages out of the dues/taxes local franchise residents would pay. Some franchises would be a collectivist's paradise. Others would be a ghetto dump. All would profit!! ! Mainland China can only benefit from this kind of deal.

The trade-off would make foreign franchises organized in mainland China, such as an opium war themed British colonial period franchise, highly advantageous for the Chinese themselves since native non-resident Chinese could obtain tourist visas to enjoy the nightlife such a franchise would provide. Non-Chinese franchise residents would be providing goods and services that would interest the Chinese while simultaneously isolating them from the local population and avoiding any unwanted influence from western capitalists. More than likely the kind of Chinese who'd be granted tourist visas would be established party member elites as opposed to the average factory worker. This would be something the franchisee would be required to do by the Chinese government prior to getting a development permit.

Something else I could see working in a similar fashion would be a Pripyat-themed Ukrainian-sponsored colony in northern Alberta. Of course, they'd do better opening one in Japan for the sake of authenticity. As part of their local performing/visual arts program, they could build a scale-model replica of reactor #4 for concerts and exhibitions. Non-resident, first-season subscribers would get complimentary dosimeters. New residents could get something really cool like one-time hunting/fishing licenses for the actual red forest. All proceeds could go to funding R&D for renewable energy, which, incidentally, would constitute the majority of the the Neo-Pripyat economy. If you were a Neo-Pripyat franchisee, you can bet my CSA would be interested in supporting some of your "alternative energy" endeavors. We could work out a cozy trade agreement in which, say, we offer grain "processing" and "storage" in exchange for nucl…um, "alternative heating" technologies. We'd negotiate a treaty in which anyone holding a Neo-Pripyat ID would automatically pass a CSA checkpoint. The Ukrainians might want to work out an exit-visa system first, of course, and CSA residents would have to be pre-approved to enter neo-Pripyat. Things like that would work out NICELY for both of us.

Alright, but how will we convince the governments to recognize our micronations?

I want to see more serious micronational efforts. BTW, I am not a businessman, just an individual with an idea for government.

Maybe it can even be a niche interest nation.


I see potential for new micronations, but the will to recognize these nations isn't there yet.

It might be possible in somewhere like Africa.
But really we are running out of truly free and independent places.
Other planets may be the only option but its likely centuries if not more away.
People are really working on this

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M8yht_ofHc[/youtube]