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Androgyne sues catering business for $518,682

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zer0netgain
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09 Feb 2014, 4:46 pm

thomas81 wrote:
the extent of passive aggressiveness of some towards the most marginalised of society never ceases to confound and disgust me.


Does this person LACK any secondary sexual characteristics? Does this person have male or female plumbing, or does this person have both?

Both stories are silent on what "gender" the litigant actually possesses. So, this could be nothing more than a man or a woman rejecting gender identity labels when really they aptly apply.

I could have sympathy if the person had plumbing for both (hermaphrodite) or somehow lacked either, but absent that, it's simply a man or a woman who is rejecting the appropriate label, and at some point you have to stop the silliness.

At least with a transgendered you have a person wishing to live as a known gender. They will dress the part and perhaps even seek surgical alteration to become the part, but a GENDERLESS identity simply does not exist. Humans are either male or female, they aren't NEITHER.

So, unless there is a biological factor establishing that neither male nor female aptly apply, this person is CHOOSING to be difficult and being militant about a label is going to make you something people don't want to be around.

I refuse to associate with black people who insist on making everything about their skin color. That doesn't make me racist...that makes me someone who doesn't need such a drama whore in my life.

Life isn't perfect, we all have to learn to live with that. Pick your battles. This isn't one of them.



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09 Feb 2014, 6:25 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
the extent of passive aggressiveness of some towards the most marginalised of society never ceases to confound and disgust me.


They will dress the part and perhaps even seek surgical alteration to become the part, but a GENDERLESS identity simply does not exist. Humans are either male or female, they aren't NEITHER..


If Oregon has granted its citizens the right to self-define , then it is a matter of arbitrary self-definition.



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09 Feb 2014, 6:47 pm

http://neutrois.com/



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10 Feb 2014, 12:05 am

I don't have a gender.

Probably wouldn't sue people over pronouns, though.

*shrug*


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zer0netgain
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10 Feb 2014, 7:07 am

XFilesGeek wrote:
I don't have a gender.


Please explain.

Does that mean that you don't have genitalia for either gender?

Does that mean you don't have an XX or XY chromosome setup?

Does that mean you simply reject the application of a gender identity?



thomas81
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10 Feb 2014, 8:20 am

Image


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10 Feb 2014, 1:06 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
I don't have a gender.


Please explain.

Does that mean that you don't have genitalia for either gender?

Does that mean you don't have an XX or XY chromosome setup?

Does that mean you simply reject the application of a gender identity?


Option #3.

However, I'm not particular about pronouns.


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10 Feb 2014, 1:13 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
Someone tell Lex Luthor that he needs to modify his San Andreas fault plan to include a good portion of Oregon. :roll:

There is no such thing as a gender-neutral pronoun in polite society. "IT" is considered a rude pronoun when referring to a person. If the person in question appears to be female, that person should learn to be accepting of the feminine labels because you aren't going to last long in ANY job if you're going to throw a fit or hold a gender identity lecture every time a CUSTOMER refers to you with a feminine label.

IT has no case outside of the "little lady" comments.

If IT wins, I hope IT uses the money wisely...odds are NOBODY will hire IT for fear of a lawsuit.


If you read the OP it says these where co-workers who knew this individual not customers who knew they did not want to be referred to as a woman or man. If anything continuting to do so after being informed of they're issue with it I think it would be kinda harrasing for the other co-workers to continue to do so. I don't know for sure but I am willing to guess the individual in the article is probably more tolerant towards people who have no idea using a masculine or feminine pro-noun...but the co-workers it seems did know about this.

How many people like being called a gender they aren't? If a female was on a job and all the other co-workers started calling her he, and him what would you consider that....respectful behavior that woman should just deal with? or a bit harrasing on the part of the co-workers continuing to do it?


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10 Feb 2014, 1:20 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
the extent of passive aggressiveness of some towards the most marginalised of society never ceases to confound and disgust me.


Does this person LACK any secondary sexual characteristics? Does this person have male or female plumbing, or does this person have both?

Both stories are silent on what "gender" the litigant actually possesses. So, this could be nothing more than a man or a woman rejecting gender identity labels when really they aptly apply.

I could have sympathy if the person had plumbing for both (hermaphrodite) or somehow lacked either, but absent that, it's simply a man or a woman who is rejecting the appropriate label, and at some point you have to stop the silliness.

At least with a transgendered you have a person wishing to live as a known gender. They will dress the part and perhaps even seek surgical alteration to become the part, but a GENDERLESS identity simply does not exist. Humans are either male or female, they aren't NEITHER.

So, unless there is a biological factor establishing that neither male nor female aptly apply, this person is CHOOSING to be difficult and being militant about a label is going to make you something people don't want to be around.

I refuse to associate with black people who insist on making everything about their skin color. That doesn't make me racist...that makes me someone who doesn't need such a drama whore in my life.

Life isn't perfect, we all have to learn to live with that. Pick your battles. This isn't one of them.


Actually it is false that humans are either male or female and never neither or both....also its possible for one with a females body to have a male brain and one with a male body to have a female brain.....Gender is hardly a clear cut thing. Who decides what someones appropriate gender label is?....you?


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11 Feb 2014, 12:08 am

XFilesGeek wrote:
Does that mean you simply reject the application of a gender identity?


Option #3.

However, I'm not particular about pronouns.[/quote]

Okay, so you just don't like being assigned a gender by society. I get that, but you do realize that it's your physical outward appearance that the "label" is based on, right? If you have male genitals, you're male. If you have female genitals, you're female.

I suppose everyone could refer to you as XFilesGeek, but pronouns are intended to avoid having to refer to everyone by their proper name every single time. If you are physically a female, getting bent out of shape because someone refers to you with a feminine pronoun would be silliness.

Sweetleaf wrote:
Actually it is false that humans are either male or female and never neither or both....also its possible for one with a females body to have a male brain and one with a male body to have a female brain.....Gender is hardly a clear cut thing. Who decides what someones appropriate gender label is?....you?


As I said, your "gender" is based on outward appearances. Short of lacking either or having both, it's pretty clear-cut what you were born into. At least when a transgendered person dresses as the opposite sex (if done right), they look it and it makes sense to refer to them as that gender. Should a man be able to say, "Refer to me as 'she'." when he doesn't look the least bit like a woman?



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11 Feb 2014, 6:33 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
How many people like being called a gender they aren't? If a female was on a job and all the other co-workers started calling her he, and him what would you consider that....respectful behavior that woman should just deal with? or a bit harrasing on the part of the co-workers continuing to do it?


It's a little different when you're demanding to be addressed in a way that is far outside the norms for most people and may not even be recognized by them, as if your foreign coworker demanded that you address them using the specific titles and honorifics used in their own language, and then sued when their wishes were not followed.


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11 Feb 2014, 10:02 am

zer0netgain wrote:

Okay, so you just don't like being assigned a gender by society. I get that, but you do realize that it's your physical outward appearance that the "label" is based on, right? If you have male genitals, you're male. If you have female genitals, you're female.

I suppose everyone could refer to you as XFilesGeek, but pronouns are intended to avoid having to refer to everyone by their proper name every single time. If you are physically a female, getting bent out of shape because someone refers to you with a feminine pronoun would be silliness.


Some people refer to me using masculine pronouns. Other people refer to me using feminine pronouns. I generally leave it up to individuals as to how they feel most comfortable addressing me.

I don't get upset over pronoun usage as the English language does not have particularly good options in regard to "gender-neutral" language.


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zer0netgain
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11 Feb 2014, 3:51 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
I don't get upset over pronoun usage as the English language does not have particularly good options in regard to "gender-neutral" language.


From personal experience, other than "hey, you" and "hey, a$$h0le".... I'm drawing blanks. :lol:



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11 Feb 2014, 9:12 pm

Dox47 wrote:
[

It's a little different when you're demanding to be addressed in a way that is far outside the norms for most people and may not even be recognized by them, as if your foreign coworker demanded that you address them using the specific titles and honorifics used in their own language, and then sued when their wishes were not followed.


I agree with this. Although I suspect that after repeated requests from her to change their usual method of addressing people, her co-workers responded by accentuating the pro-nouns, if so this would be a case of bullying.

Look what I have just done, without intending to I have use gender specific pro-nouns :? It would be no different than if a male or female demanded they be addressed by the opposite gender pro-noun, basically you demanding people change their normal linguistic rules, and then claiming bullying because they refuse to comply. I would have sympathy if she had made this request a couple of times and then received negative treatment for it, but on the face of it she seems to have been pretty forward in demanding others change, I have little sympathy.

Its the same when I work, I do not expect people to make allowances for my asd, I try to fit in, I try to learn the rules of social engagement. I do not expect everyone to under go a seminar in dealing with my ASD. Would it be right if I did not like people making eye contact with me to demand no-one was allowed to do this, creating a scene everytime someone inadvertently did?

Ps Look what I have just done, without intending to I have use gender specific pro-nouns :? It is not easy to change common forms of language, and I for one would get my back up if someone continuously and self righteously demanded I did so.


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11 Feb 2014, 10:00 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
How many people like being called a gender they aren't? If a female was on a job and all the other co-workers started calling her he, and him what would you consider that....respectful behavior that woman should just deal with? or a bit harrasing on the part of the co-workers continuing to do it?


It's a little different when you're demanding to be addressed in a way that is far outside the norms for most people and may not even be recognized by them, as if your foreign coworker demanded that you address them using the specific titles and honorifics used in their own language, and then sued when their wishes were not followed.


I don't think its quite the same thing, its not that hard not to call someone he or she if they request it and you know they don't identify that way.


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11 Feb 2014, 10:03 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
As I said, your "gender" is based on outward appearances. Short of lacking either or having both, it's pretty clear-cut what you were born into. At least when a transgendered person dresses as the opposite sex (if done right), they look it and it makes sense to refer to them as that gender. Should a man be able to say, "Refer to me as 'she'." when he doesn't look the least bit like a woman?


And if ones outside appearance is androgynous, and they prefer not to be referred to as a gender it makes sense. If a transgendered female(male body dressed as female) and prefers to be referred to as 'she' people who know obviously shouldn't call them 'he'. I think Gender neutral is just as valid as transgendered males and females.


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