Denmark Vesey: Hero? Or Villain?

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ArrantPariah
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01 Mar 2014, 8:21 pm

Slavery in the Old South just wasn't going to end without violence. And lots of it.

Misslizard
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01 Mar 2014, 8:25 pm

^^^I thought you liked people being complaint AP?You are suggesting that people become violent and use*gasp*firearms?I thought you were a pacifist?

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01 Mar 2014, 9:27 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:

Slavery in the Old South just wasn't going to end without violence. And lots of it.

Well that took an invading army, even though emancipating slaves wasn't their primary goal. A mere slave uprising here and there wasn't going to do it.

Misslizard wrote:

^^^I thought you liked people being complaint AP?You are suggesting that people become violent and use*gasp*firearms?I thought you were a pacifist?

Most pacifists are only pacifists until their own needs call for violence. Of course, then it's justifiable since their purpose is (to them) always noble.

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Last edited by Raptor on 01 Mar 2014, 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ArrantPariah
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01 Mar 2014, 9:36 pm

You know me too well.

ArrantPariah
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02 Mar 2014, 8:06 am

Raptor wrote:

ArrantPariah wrote:

Slavery in the Old South just wasn't going to end without violence. And lots of it.

Well that took an invading army, even though emancipating slaves wasn't their primary goal. A mere slave uprising here and there wasn't going to do it.

Putting an end to human trafficking in the United States was among the primary goals. Southerners just like to try to diminish the importance, because it makes them feel ashamed. Otherwise, Lincoln wouldn't have bothered pushing through the 13th Amendment. Freeing over 4 million people, and trying to civilize the South, were big tasks. For a brief time during Reconstruction, former slaves could vote and serve in public office.

Misslizard wrote:

^^^I thought you liked people being complaint AP?You are suggesting that people become violent and use*gasp*firearms?I thought you were a pacifist?

Most pacifists are only pacifists until their own needs call for violence. Of course, then it's justifiable since their purpose is (to them) always noble.

Ending slavery and defeating Hitler were both very noble, and couldn't have been accomplished without violence.

naturalplastic
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02 Mar 2014, 8:19 am

Blaming Vessey for not using MLK, or Gandhi, as role models ( both of whom were more than a centurey in the future) is silly. He didnt have access to a time machine.

For any American to condemn him because he DID use George Washington as a role model by doing essentially the same thing that Washington had done only a couple generations before-which was to lead an Armed insurrection against an oppressor- is both absurd, and hypocritical.

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02 Mar 2014, 8:36 am

naturalplastic wrote:

Last time I checked, Denmark Vesey rebelled against slavery.

Washington rebelled against taxation without white representation.

Vesey may not have been the kindest man on Earth, but it would be unfair to drag him down to the level of someone like George Washington.

The_Walrus
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02 Mar 2014, 11:02 am

Stannis wrote:

The reactions to this surprise me. I don't think people have done a lot of research on slavery, if they don't think slaves are entitled to kill slavers. Was Spartacus bad too?

Two wrongs don't make a right.

ArrantPariah
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02 Mar 2014, 11:23 am

There was a successful slave revolt in Haiti, some 20 years earlier. In fact, Haiti was the second independent republic in the Americas. The example had our white Southerners pooping in their pants. Particularly in states where the slaves vastly outnumbered free persons. The United States didn't officially recognize Haiti until (guess who?) Abe Lincoln was president.

luanqibazao
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02 Mar 2014, 2:09 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:

But the North is full of, you know, "Liberals." Why would a slave want to leave a godly Conservative state just to go to Pinko-land?

You know, an obedient, hard-working slave could count on being provided with food, clothing, and shelter, as a valuable beast of burden. If he broke a leg or something he would be fed and cared for until he healed. And his master was legally forbidden to turn him out in the elements even when he became old and sick. It sounds like some people's idea of Paradise.

The Northern states, on the other hand, were essentially laissez-faire. A person would have to go through all the hassle of getting and keeping a job, buying his own stuff, and making his own provisions for a rainy day; those unable to earn their own living would have no option but to seek out private charity. Why, indeed, would anybody exchange comfort and security for all that icky freedom?

Misslizard
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02 Mar 2014, 3:34 pm

I don't blame him at all for trying to escape,I probably would have also tried.I don't think I could have been able to go into someone's room at night and kill kids,I suppose you would have to kill the whole family.If a person was angry enough at losing their own family,maybe they would be able to do this.It doesn't seem like a very good plan,if one person escaped they'd set off the alarm have everyone after you.
Anyway,I'm sorry he didn't have another idea that would allowed him to escape and live as a free man.

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02 Mar 2014, 10:48 pm

Misslizard wrote:

He was already free. He'd won a $1500 city lottery and bought himself. He tried to buy his wife but her master wouldn't sell her.

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Misslizard
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02 Mar 2014, 11:02 pm

Don't know how I missed that ,I'm going to blame the weather,it has made me stupid.I'm sorry he didn't get to purchase his wife and free her.

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03 Mar 2014, 2:20 am

luanqibazao wrote:

Hero, of course.

Incredible that some people still identify with the slaveowners.

This will completely blow your mind - - but I am in total agreement with you!

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03 Mar 2014, 2:20 am

luanqibazao wrote:

Hero, of course.

Incredible that some people still identify with the slaveowners.

This will completely blow your mind - - but I am in total agreement with you!

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ArrantPariah
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05 Mar 2014, 9:24 am

Here is what happened at the end

http://www3.gettysburg.edu/~tshannon/hi ... revolt.htm

Quote:

Vesey was a literate and very intelligent black man who had purchased his freedom in January of 1800; he was the only free black to take part in the revolt. The revolt was planned to occur on an unknown date in May of 1822 near Charleston, South Carolina (Sylvester, bio 231).
Vesey's views and ambitions were spurred by his work with the African Methodist Episcopal (AME) Church, the only independent black church in Charleston at the time. Within the church, Vesey gave sermons and led lessons. As a literate man, he was looked upon as a teacher. His association with the AME Church gave him an outlet to express his views of equality. (Sylvester, Bio 230-232). The strong influence that religion had on Vesey, and Vesey's biblical education are evident through the song "Go Down, Moses," which is popularly credited to Denmark Vesey:

When Israel was in Egyptland
Let my people go
Oppressed so hard they could not stand
Let my people go

Go down, Moses,
Way down in Egyptland
Tell old Pharoah,
"Let my people go!"

....Of the 130 arrested conspirators, 49 were sentenced to death and twelve were later pardoned. In the end, 36 slaves, including Peter Poyas, were hanged. Denmark Vesey was also hanged with his followers. Four white men were arrested, jailed, and fined for their roles in the revolt. The African Methodist Episcopal Church was subsequently torn down, and stricter laws were passed in many southern states to limit the movement granted and the education given to blacks in the South. Black people could no longer meet in groups for any reason without the presence of a white person; slaves could not hire out their free time; and, in South Carolina, free blacks over the age of 15 were required to have a white guardian.

The slave-owners were pooping in their pants.

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