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Book of Revelation

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fjm
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17 Feb 2007, 5:34 am

Hyperborealian wrote:
Anybody here have in interest in this subject or biblical prophesies. I do, even though I am an athiest.

I tend to have a historic view on it, meaning that I believe it to be more or less war propaganda at the height of the Roman persecution of the Christians. But I want to know what you think.....


The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse

"And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see.

And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."

--Revelation, verses 1-8.



<snip>

The Black Death. In common with the above verse, it was estimated to have killed 1/4 of the total population of the earth at that time. It started in China, and spread across China, down into Africa, up through the Middle East and on into Europe. The rats(fleas) that spread it traveled along with armies and merchants, both of which are symbolized in the above verses.

BTW, if you read in the Bible (depending upon translation) It originally speaks about those who are against Christ. Only later does this behavior/attitude become symbolized as an individual called the antiChrist.

Scott



kayetes
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17 Feb 2007, 11:03 am

I don't think very highly of the book of revelations. I would cut it out (though not entirely) of a bible version I'd re-publish (yeah, damn me ;)).
I just believe in Jesus' Statements according to the gospels. If something that his disciples wrote or said is accordance, then I believe in it too. But sometimes it may not be, even though they claimed it was the Holy Spirit made them say it.
For me, Jesus was and is the One and Only Lord and all other humans are just children of God, like me. I don't even (necessarily) believe that Jesus and God are one and the same, but that they are Father and Son. I don't understand the book of revelations - I also think it isn't worth the trouble of trying to understand it.



TheMachine1
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17 Feb 2007, 2:09 pm

Some Bibles have the direct quotes of God and Jesus in red letters. Thomas Jefferson
reportedly edited his own bible just to the words of Jesus.



ASPER
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17 Feb 2007, 2:46 pm

2000+ years its a lot of time for the enemies of the believers to play around with their scriptures and destroy the message,becareful what u take as guidence because people have put their dirty hands on them and changed them.
the book that hasnt changed its The Reading(Al QurAn) due to its way of reciting because it rhymes it was momorized by people and till today a lot of people know it by memory so it wasnt preserved by paper but by memory and when ever a change occurs it is noticiable right away,and there is also a numerical code(19) that proves its divine,but thats if u have faith,people can deny anything that comes in front of them.

peace



kayetes
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17 Feb 2007, 3:15 pm

ASPER wrote:
2000+ years its a lot of time for the enemies of the believers to play around with their scriptures and destroy the message,becareful what u take as guidence because people have put their dirty hands on them and changed them.
the book that hasnt changed its The Reading(Al QurAn) due to its way of reciting because it rhymes it was momorized by people and till today a lot of people know it by memory so it wasnt preserved by paper but by memory and when ever a change occurs it is noticiable right away,and there is also a numerical code(19) that proves its divine,but thats if u have faith,people can deny anything that comes in front of them.

peace


Well, according to Revelation 22:19 (And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.) the book hasn't been changed either - though of course the translations of the Bible probably do have changed the meaning in some way, every translation does so - according to my quotation this would ultimately be disadvantageous to the translators, who surely had pious intents :wink: .

The core of god's word (Jesus) remains intact however and the Truth is as true as it has always been and will always be.

Revelations is just too mysterious and melodramatic for me, maybe it did made sense for someone some long time ago to deem it worthy to be admitted into the Bible.



ASPER
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17 Feb 2007, 3:26 pm

the bible was translated from greek(jesus companions spoke aramaic and hebrew not greek) to latin and then from one language to another(making the message not the same),the ORIGINAL scriptures cant be found(they "accidentally" were destroyed or burned),do you trust the leaders of the church? remember when God says to be aware of the wolf in the sheep's skin...
peace



kayetes
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17 Feb 2007, 3:42 pm

TheMachine1 wrote:
Some Bibles have the direct quotes of God and Jesus in red letters. Thomas Jefferson
reportedly edited his own bible just to the words of Jesus.


Very interesting.
I thought Jefferson was a freemason and that freemasonry is rather inclined to atheism (?)



AlexandertheSolitary
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17 Feb 2007, 4:15 pm

kayetes wrote:
TheMachine1 wrote:
Some Bibles have the direct quotes of God and Jesus in red letters. Thomas Jefferson
reportedly edited his own bible just to the words of Jesus.


Very interesting.
I thought Jefferson was a freemason and that freemasonry is rather inclined to atheism (?)


A freethinker, not a Freemason. I think at the time those known as freethinkers were inclined to Deism (God created the world and left it to its own devices). As for Freemasons, I think the minimum criteria include belief in a Supreme Being - hence open to people from a range of faiths -so no to atheism there as well.


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