Abortion

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Joined: 17 Dec 2005
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16 Feb 2007, 10:31 pm

I think that we should allow abortion with one condition, expectant mothers have to get liquored up and do it themselves with this tool here:

I think that will satisfy all groups.

charlesbronstein
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16 Feb 2007, 11:24 pm

chadders wrote:

If the mother doesn't want the child but the father does, then if they are married a mutual decision needs to be reached, if they aren't then the father must claim ownership and the mother must go through with the pregnancy..

...That's ridiculous, under your reasoning, the man owns a share in the women's body. The man just has to stick his penis in, the woman has to carry it for 9 months.It's "her" body....plain and simple.

Endersdragon
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16 Feb 2007, 11:35 pm

jonathan79 wrote:

I am definitely pro-choice. If anyone is against abortion, then they should be willing to be foster parents. People who are against abortion should be willing to put money into the orphan industry, or take the orphans themselves. Its unfair to say, "well, you made a choice to have sex, and now you have to live with it". Because in your attempt to punish the parents, you are actually punishing the child. A child who never asked to be born. Punishing a child for the sins of the parents is more immoral than abortion could ever be.

Where do these children usually end up? Being put up for adoption because abortion wasn't an option. Its hard enough to make it in this world without being born to a couple of people who don't want you, and then on top of it all, being put into the world of foster care.

Ummm I believe 95 or more % of people are adopoted within the first year, most of the ones who aren't are in some way disabled. So they get out of the world of foster care before they ever really get put into it. Most kids in the foster care system today are either disabled or got their late in life (orphaned or abused). Most kids being aborted would be totally healthy so your arguement really holds no merit.

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chadders
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17 Feb 2007, 3:51 am

charlesbronstein wrote:

chadders wrote:

You have sensationalised my quote, but I have forgotten to add something so thanks for reminding me. There is also the question of rape, and if rape is a factor then the victim has the choice not the rapist.

It bugs me when the male gets left out of the decision (unless for medical reasons the lady can't deliver). In my opinion the mother and father should have equal ownership unless one or the other wants nothing to do with it.

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ahayes
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17 Feb 2007, 4:56 am

Considering that there are LOTS of ways to do it without getting pregant abortion shouldn't be necessary. However, in certain circumstances I believe that sometimes post-natal abortion is often necessary

kayetes
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17 Feb 2007, 11:34 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

We should go a few steps further with abortion and allow it to be post-natal and to use every part of what we kill.

that's terrible.

I am pro-life. I think all parents who decide to have childen should have to live with the 'risk' of having children who don't exactly suit their image of what they conceived to be the perfect child.
I am against abortion in all cases, even rape. As soon as people take for themselves the right to discard or not other humans, the threshold to what's acceptable will be moved more and more.

Awesomelyglorious
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17 Feb 2007, 11:54 am

kayetes wrote:

that's terrible.

Terribly efficient that is. You people and your culture of life. Please, a culture of death would be much cooler!

Endersdragon
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17 Feb 2007, 1:44 pm

kayetes wrote:

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

We should go a few steps further with abortion and allow it to be post-natal and to use every part of what we kill.

He's joking... though it does make you wonder what suddenly makes someone human when they come out of the womb... by the logic of the foster care system is evil shouldn't we kill disabled newborns that parents don't want them to save them from that life?

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jimservo
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17 Feb 2007, 3:56 pm

ahayes wrote:

Would the hanging of Saddam Hussein be considered a post-natal abortion?

Disclaimer: I am pro-life and oppose abortions except to save the life of the mother.

My position on the law is that Roe v. Wade, Doe v Bolton (finding a "right" to abortion), the latter Planned Parenthood v. Casey (upholding it again) as well as the earlier decision in Griswold v Connecticut (that barred the restriction of birth control devices) were without constitutional merit and should be reversed.

I do not see any constitutional ban on abortion inherent in the US constitution, and therefor the courts should not declare one (the reverse is also the case). As unethical as I consider abortion to be, it would be counterproductive for the pro-life movement to use similar tactics as those who claim to believe in a "living constitution." They should work through the elective and appointive bodies as are legally appropriate.

ZanneMarie
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17 Feb 2007, 4:15 pm

kayetes wrote:

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

We should go a few steps further with abortion and allow it to be post-natal and to use every part of what we kill.

Yeah, my grandfather thought this way as well. He didn't have to live with my mom, who by the way is a diagnosed Sociopath who tried to drown my three older brothers. If you think that all kids should be stuck with those parents, my response is that you should be forced to live with my mother for 18 years and then we will see exactly how you feel about it. Unfortunately for all who hold this stupid belief, Sociopaths do take responsibility in their own twisted way. They experiment on you because they don't have the capacity to feel anything for you except as something to play with to see how you respond. As for me, if any pregnant woman doesn't want the kid, I'd stick the hanger up there myself to prevent the poor kid from going through what we did. Being Pro-Life is NOT about the kid and you have no business saying it is until you live with the consequences of that.

ASPER
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17 Feb 2007, 4:23 pm

how about fathers teach their children about sex more instead of hidding it,more protection avaliable and no fornication.
hold your horny self till your 17 or 18 and marry your wife,if u dont like it then divorce but the abortions comes from people who fornicate all the time and killing the baby its a gross act.
pro-life
pro-sex education
anti-fornication
peace

ghostgurl
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17 Feb 2007, 4:30 pm

I am pro-choice.

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ghostgurl
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17 Feb 2007, 4:38 pm

ZanneMarie wrote:

kayetes wrote:

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

We should go a few steps further with abortion and allow it to be post-natal and to use every part of what we kill.

Exactly. Better the child not to be born than live a childhood with parents who do not want the child, who ends up getting neglected and abused.

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Endersdragon
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17 Feb 2007, 4:39 pm

ZanneMarie wrote:

kayetes wrote:

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

We should go a few steps further with abortion and allow it to be post-natal and to use every part of what we kill.

Sounds like your anti child abuse not pro-choice. Do you still wish you were dead right now?

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666
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17 Feb 2007, 4:41 pm

Pro-choice here. I think abortion should not only be legal, but free as well, on the condition that they donate the embryo for stem cell research.

kayetes
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17 Feb 2007, 4:44 pm

ZanneMarie wrote:

Yeah, my grandfather thought this way as well. He didn't have to live with my mom, who by the way is a diagnosed Sociopath who tried to drown my three older brothers.

I am sorry to hear about you having such an unpleasant childhood. I have understood that you would have prefered to have been aborted rather than having had to live in your family. But that is a decision you would take now, you couldn't have likely known that 18 years before. Most newborns have the will to live.
Any bad fate that could happen to children, who would otherwise have been aborted, has nothing to do with this question. Sins and injustice is linked to humanity, as long as it will exist.

ZanneMarie wrote:

If you think that all kids should be stuck with those parents, my response is that you should be forced to live with my mother for 18 years and then we will see exactly how you feel about it.

And of course I then should also be forced to live with another mother, in another family, who would maybe have aborted but did not and ultimately had shown to be the most caring and responsible mother.
But I am not opposed to adoption. Your mother could have put you up for adoption.

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