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auntblabby
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21 Apr 2014, 1:27 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
how do you get the republican-voting non-mother jones/nation-reading joe lunchbox to see the light?


Unfortunately, those same people get their news from Fox, which tells them that real democracy rests with gun rights, homophobia, fear of whites losing their majority, voter ID laws, and the notion that the poor only need to emulate the rich to become successful.

how do you break them of their short-sightedness and petty hatred of the other?



Kraichgauer
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21 Apr 2014, 2:13 am

auntblabby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
how do you get the republican-voting non-mother jones/nation-reading joe lunchbox to see the light?


Unfortunately, those same people get their news from Fox, which tells them that real democracy rests with gun rights, homophobia, fear of whites losing their majority, voter ID laws, and the notion that the poor only need to emulate the rich to become successful.

how do you break them of their short-sightedness and petty hatred of the other?


I'm not going to say it's impossible, because there are younger people in the deep south who have rejected the racism they had been raised with. Or for that matter, how many people in your and my home region of the Pacific Northwest even remember how our forefathers had hated Asian immigrants, and Native Americans? And just ten years ago, who would have foreseen the strives gay Americans have made in the civil and social realms? But unfortunately, it takes time, and there will always be those who never will give up their hate and fear of "the other."


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auntblabby
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21 Apr 2014, 2:18 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
how do you get the republican-voting non-mother jones/nation-reading joe lunchbox to see the light?


Unfortunately, those same people get their news from Fox, which tells them that real democracy rests with gun rights, homophobia, fear of whites losing their majority, voter ID laws, and the notion that the poor only need to emulate the rich to become successful.

how do you break them of their short-sightedness and petty hatred of the other?


I'm not going to say it's impossible, because there are younger people in the deep south who have rejected the racism they had been raised with. Or for that matter, how many people in your and my home region of the Pacific Northwest even remember how our forefathers had hated Asian immigrants, and Native Americans? And just ten years ago, who would have foreseen the strives gay Americans have made in the civil and social realms? But unfortunately, it takes time, and there will always be those who never will give up their hate and fear of "the other."

there can still be those holdouts but hopefully eventually few enough of them as to break the GOP's stranglehold on the south.



Kraichgauer
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21 Apr 2014, 2:27 am

auntblabby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
how do you get the republican-voting non-mother jones/nation-reading joe lunchbox to see the light?


Unfortunately, those same people get their news from Fox, which tells them that real democracy rests with gun rights, homophobia, fear of whites losing their majority, voter ID laws, and the notion that the poor only need to emulate the rich to become successful.

how do you break them of their short-sightedness and petty hatred of the other?


I'm not going to say it's impossible, because there are younger people in the deep south who have rejected the racism they had been raised with. Or for that matter, how many people in your and my home region of the Pacific Northwest even remember how our forefathers had hated Asian immigrants, and Native Americans? And just ten years ago, who would have foreseen the strives gay Americans have made in the civil and social realms? But unfortunately, it takes time, and there will always be those who never will give up their hate and fear of "the other."

there can still be those holdouts but hopefully eventually few enough of them as to break the GOP's stranglehold on the south.


As soon as the old bigots die off.


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em_tsuj
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21 Apr 2014, 2:58 am

auntblabby wrote:
when one is poor, one does not contribute to the system by default due to not having any money to pay for stuff in the first place.


The government gives you money so that you can graze in the pasture (unemployment benefits, food stamps, Medicaid, social security, pell grants, etc.). There is a huge market for poor people (Dollar Store, Family Dollar, Wal-mart, etc.). That's how the economy works where I live and in every other poor community. You would be amazed at how many discount stores per block there are where I live. People don't work but consume things anyway so that other people can have jobs making the things that these people consume and so that the people who own the companies that make these things can make a profit and invest those profits in other economic ventures to maximize their profits and so on and so on and so on. Unless you are an undiscovered tribe in the Amazon rainforest or choose to live a traditional (non-civilized) lifestyle, you are a part of the global capitalist system. You are a cow in the pasture of consumerism. Your whole purpose for existence (in the eyes of our corporate overlords) is to spend money so that resources are transformed into profits. America celebrates this system and is all about it. I doubt this will change unless we abolish the U.S. Constitution and redesign the whole system along different lines.



yournamehere
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21 Apr 2014, 6:50 am

em_tsuj wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
when one is poor, one does not contribute to the system by default due to not having any money to pay for stuff in the first place.


The government gives you money so that you can graze in the pasture (unemployment benefits, food stamps, Medicaid, social security, pell grants, etc.). There is a huge market for poor people (Dollar Store, Family Dollar, Wal-mart, etc.). That's how the economy works where I live and in every other poor community. You would be amazed at how many discount stores per block there are where I live. People don't work but consume things anyway so that other people can have jobs making the things that these people consume and so that the people who own the companies that make these things can make a profit and invest those profits in other economic ventures to maximize their profits and so on and so on and so on. Unless you are an undiscovered tribe in the Amazon rainforest or choose to live a traditional (non-civilized) lifestyle, you are a part of the global capitalist system. You are a cow in the pasture of consumerism. Your whole purpose for existence (in the eyes of our corporate overlords) is to spend money so that resources are transformed into profits. America celebrates this system and is all about it. I doubt this will change unless we abolish the U.S. Constitution and redesign the whole system along different lines.


The price is wrong Bob. Our economy is failing. It does not get better by giving away free stuff, so a corporation can end up with it.

Things can get better from hard work, and resourcefulness. It would really help if people stopped watching, or actually recognized all the projection transference, and control on T.V., and the radio.

All of the narcissistic corporate unethical behavior going on is definately not helping either.

Successful buisness, and thriving countries are made from dirt, and elbow grease. Not wellfare, and useless garble.



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21 Apr 2014, 11:05 am

^^^
But for work and elbow grease to succeed, you need opportunity, which is sadly becoming less available to poor people in modern society.


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21 Apr 2014, 1:23 pm

^^^ i dont really want to sound like a dink here, but if you wait around for someone to hold your hand, not much gets done. If you make people do things, it is usually some form of abuse. Unfortunately, there are alot of people who do not motivate themselves to do. I believe alot of these dregs of society have entitlement issues, and believe that working for others is beneath them. They collect, because they can. People let them. They do as little as possible to get by. In doing so, they complain about what is going on like someone else needs to do something about it. Rich, or poor, it doesn't matter. Some actually need help because they try, and cannot succeed. The others make problems, because of an easy way out. The rest of us actually work for a living. I am self made. I didn't wait around for someones help.



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21 Apr 2014, 3:51 pm

yournamehere wrote:
^^^ i dont really want to sound like a dink here, but if you wait around for someone to hold your hand, not much gets done. If you make people do things, it is usually some form of abuse. Unfortunately, there are alot of people who do not motivate themselves to do. I believe alot of these dregs of society have entitlement issues, and believe that working for others is beneath them. They collect, because they can. People let them. They do as little as possible to get by. In doing so, they complain about what is going on like someone else needs to do something about it. Rich, or poor, it doesn't matter. Some actually need help because they try, and cannot succeed. The others make problems, because of an easy way out. The rest of us actually work for a living. I am self made. I didn't wait around for someones help.


And yet, whenever conservatives talk about "working people," they almost always mean business owners, not workers. They call for people to start their own businesses, but are very hostile to the notion of worker's rights, including raising the minimum wage, work place safety regulations, the right to organize, etc. At one time, laborers could make enough money to be part of the middle class, but today, the emphasis is on the employer having no responsibility but to make money, even if that means cutting wages and benefits, or even pulling up stakes and leaving thousands of Americans without work.


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21 Apr 2014, 6:48 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
yournamehere wrote:
^^^ i dont really want to sound like a dink here, but if you wait around for someone to hold your hand, not much gets done. If you make people do things, it is usually some form of abuse. Unfortunately, there are alot of people who do not motivate themselves to do. I believe alot of these dregs of society have entitlement issues, and believe that working for others is beneath them. They collect, because they can. People let them. They do as little as possible to get by. In doing so, they complain about what is going on like someone else needs to do something about it. Rich, or poor, it doesn't matter. Some actually need help because they try, and cannot succeed. The others make problems, because of an easy way out. The rest of us actually work for a living. I am self made. I didn't wait around for someones help.


And yet, whenever conservatives talk about "working people," they almost always mean business owners, not workers. They call for people to start their own businesses, but are very hostile to the notion of worker's rights, including raising the minimum wage, work place safety regulations, the right to organize, etc. At one time, laborers could make enough money to be part of the middle class, but today, the emphasis is on the employer having no responsibility but to make money, even if that means cutting wages and benefits, or even pulling up stakes and leaving thousands of Americans without work.


I don't believe you. It is all a matter of interpretation. AAAH!! !! F***! !! I have a loiterer ringing my doorbell!! !! If they come to my front door, and ring the bell, they aint no friend of mine!! !



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21 Apr 2014, 6:51 pm

yournamehere wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
yournamehere wrote:
^^^ i dont really want to sound like a dink here, but if you wait around for someone to hold your hand, not much gets done. If you make people do things, it is usually some form of abuse. Unfortunately, there are alot of people who do not motivate themselves to do. I believe alot of these dregs of society have entitlement issues, and believe that working for others is beneath them. They collect, because they can. People let them. They do as little as possible to get by. In doing so, they complain about what is going on like someone else needs to do something about it. Rich, or poor, it doesn't matter. Some actually need help because they try, and cannot succeed. The others make problems, because of an easy way out. The rest of us actually work for a living. I am self made. I didn't wait around for someones help.


And yet, whenever conservatives talk about "working people," they almost always mean business owners, not workers. They call for people to start their own businesses, but are very hostile to the notion of worker's rights, including raising the minimum wage, work place safety regulations, the right to organize, etc. At one time, laborers could make enough money to be part of the middle class, but today, the emphasis is on the employer having no responsibility but to make money, even if that means cutting wages and benefits, or even pulling up stakes and leaving thousands of Americans without work.


I don't believe you. It is all a matter of interpretation. AAAH!! !! F***! !! I have a loiterer ringing my doorbell!! !! If they come to my front door, and ring the bell, they aint no friend of mine!! !


What is there not to believe?


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21 Apr 2014, 7:55 pm

yournamehere wrote:
^^^ i dont really want to sound like a dink here, but if you wait around for someone to hold your hand, not much gets done. If you make people do things, it is usually some form of abuse. Unfortunately, there are alot of people who do not motivate themselves to do. I believe alot of these dregs of society have entitlement issues, and believe that working for others is beneath them. They collect, because they can. People let them. They do as little as possible to get by. In doing so, they complain about what is going on like someone else needs to do something about it. Rich, or poor, it doesn't matter. Some actually need help because they try, and cannot succeed. The others make problems, because of an easy way out. The rest of us actually work for a living. I am self made. I didn't wait around for someones help.


Amen! :thumright:


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22 Apr 2014, 3:52 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
yournamehere wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
yournamehere wrote:
^^^ i dont really want to sound like a dink here, but if you wait around for someone to hold your hand, not much gets done. If you make people do things, it is usually some form of abuse. Unfortunately, there are alot of people who do not motivate themselves to do. I believe alot of these dregs of society have entitlement issues, and believe that working for others is beneath them. They collect, because they can. People let them. They do as little as possible to get by. In doing so, they complain about what is going on like someone else needs to do something about it. Rich, or poor, it doesn't matter. Some actually need help because they try, and cannot succeed. The others make problems, because of an easy way out. The rest of us actually work for a living. I am self made. I didn't wait around for someones help.


And yet, whenever conservatives talk about "working people," they almost always mean business owners, not workers. They call for people to start their own businesses, but are very hostile to the notion of worker's rights, including raising the minimum wage, work place safety regulations, the right to organize, etc. At one time, laborers could make enough money to be part of the middle class, but today, the emphasis is on the employer having no responsibility but to make money, even if that means cutting wages and benefits, or even pulling up stakes and leaving thousands of Americans without work.


I don't believe you. It is all a matter of interpretation. AAAH!! !! F***! !! I have a loiterer ringing my doorbell!! !! If they come to my front door, and ring the bell, they aint no friend of mine!! !


What is there not to believe?


I am a mechanic. I fix cars.



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22 Apr 2014, 5:02 am

You fix cars... How does that disprove what I wrote?


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em_tsuj
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22 Apr 2014, 6:47 am

yournamehere wrote:

The price is wrong Bob.


What does that mean?



em_tsuj
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22 Apr 2014, 7:06 am

yournamehere wrote:
^^^ i dont really want to sound like a dink here, but if you wait around for someone to hold your hand, not much gets done. If you make people do things, it is usually some form of abuse. Unfortunately, there are alot of people who do not motivate themselves to do. I believe alot of these dregs of society have entitlement issues, and believe that working for others is beneath them. They collect, because they can. People let them. They do as little as possible to get by. In doing so, they complain about what is going on like someone else needs to do something about it. Rich, or poor, it doesn't matter. Some actually need help because they try, and cannot succeed. The others make problems, because of an easy way out. The rest of us actually work for a living. I am self made. I didn't wait around for someones help.


I don't know where you live, but here you are going to live a miserable life on government benefits. they don't give out free money to poor people who don't work (unless you are drawing unemployment or have a demonstrated disability). they give out subsidies for housing, food, childcare, healthcare but there are usually strings attached like having to search for work or have a job and report your income. I work full-time and collect Medicaid and food stamps and still have a hard making it. i also have a degree and a skill.

if you live a good lifestyle without working it is because you are a criminal, have rich family, or are sleeping with somebody who has money. also, it is hard to find a job t that pays a living wage if you don't have skills. a job isn't guaranteed even if you do have a skill. it takes money to make money (doing job search, getting back and forth, relocating if possible). having a good social network is mandatory if you want to survive. Individualism is a lie. I challenge you to go to a homeless shelter and listen to the stories of 20 people there and then tell me what moral failing they had that landed them there. Talk to the person who works at the gas station where you get gas or the checkout clerk the next time you go shopping and ask them how they live.

get off your self-righteous soapbox and be grateful you have the opportunities you were presented with and the help you got to get where you are.

there is a class war going on. rich people want to keep their money and not take care of the poor. poor people are fighting not to be exploited by our corporate overlords. which side are you on?