Ground Offensive Launched in Gaza

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The cartoon used by one particular poster was in fact extremely Antisemitic, and he had in fact used this same cartoon today while denying the Holocaust in another thread, which has since become locked because of his prejudice.

Not likely, even with arms from both the Russians and Americans the Arab league tried to launch attacks against Israel in 1948?49, 1956, 1967, 1973?74, and 1982. On each occasion the outnumbered Israeli's kicked their butts.

Today the Israelis have one of the best trained intelligence agencies (Mossad) and armed forces in the world.

I think the Palestinians in Gaza were asking for trouble when they chose to support (unanimously) a terrorist organisation in HAMAS instead of moderate civilian government. The Palestinian people there need to forget about the past and rebuild rather than shooting bombs into Israel. I also find it hypocritical that the UN consider some international separatist organisations as freedom fighters and others as terrorists. HAMAS are terrorists, if the US can invade Iraq or Afghanistan to attack terrorists then what is the difference if Israel attacks HAMAS?

The Israelis traded land for peace. Since they didn't get peace, maybe they should take back the land.

[quote="cyberdad] if the US can invade Iraq or Afghanistan to attack terrorists then what is the difference if Israel attacks HAMAS?[/quote]


There's an answer to that one......but pointing out the obvious might get me banned

Let's just say that if half the casualties are women and children, they aren't hitting many "terrorists"

Not unless they are hiding among civilians.

1. The Palestinians did not unanimously support Hamas. The West Bank is not ruled by them, nor do many there support the group (although it is likely there are many more sympathizers as these events continue).

2. They have tried multiple times to forget the past. But when Israel restricts access to food, water, and medicine, and then closes the border to many of those who wish to leave, do you really expect them all to just sit in their basements and watch their children starve and parents die of easily treatable maladies? Many of Israel's actions toward the Palestinians have been labelled by the UN as human rights violations, which have just been ignored by the US, just like with the KSA.

3. The Palestinians are not shooting bombs into Israel, Hamas and several other extremist groups are. There are 1.8 million people in the Gaza Strip; if even 1% of them were shooting a single rocket each, that would be 18,000 rockets.

4. I find it disturbing that some people consider Israel's current offensive "self-defense."

5. The US invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan is not widely accepted as a justifiable action by the majority of the world's population, so using that as your justification is probably not your best argument.

6. In the UN in 2012, there were 138 votes in favor of recognizing Palestine, 9 against and 41 abstentions. The only nations voting against: Israel, the US, Canada, the Czech Republic, Nauru, Palau, Marshall Islands, Panama, and Micronesia. As of thew beginning of this year, 134 of 193 member states of the United Nations have officially recognized the State of Palestine (80% of the world's population). I am fairly certain that number will only go up after this travesty. But the U.S. has and will veto any UN Security Council recognition of Palestinian statehood.

7. This "they were asking for it" garbage makes me sick no matter what horrors of humanity it is used to justify. I have never seen it used for any purpose other than the dismissal of the suffering of others.

The hospitals are having a hard time.
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/2505 ... -cant-cope

The IDF has ordered the main refugee camp in Gaza to evacuate.

There is now almost nowhere left in Gaza that the IDF has not "warned."

Earlier this year there was a programme on the BBC about the booming property market in the wealthier parts of Gaza.

We continue to be told that Gaza is little more than a massive prison camp, but rich people still choose to live there. How does that work?

Evacuate to where exactly?

Wrong, In 2006, Hamas won the 2006 Palestinian legislative elections and assumed administrative control of Gaza Strip and West Bank. In order to win this election they received an overwhelming majority of the civilian vote. Surveys done in both Gaza and the west bank indicate i) 80% broad electoral support for HAMAS and ii) 88% support for a military resolution of the conflict with Israel.



Israel's blockade is against HAMAS whom have openly declared they are at war with the state of Israel. This is effectively no different to the USA blockading Cuba forcing Cubans to be self-reliant. Ironically Cuba has never threatened the US.



I have already quoted you statistics that indicate 80% support for HAMAS. The 20% who don't support HAMAS are made up of Palestinian christians, and people involved with business, education or trade with Israel. You might have also missed wild celebrations among civilians in Gaza admist the rubble over news that a Israeli soldier was captured. I also remember similar celebrations amongst civilians in Palestine the day after September 11 2001 over American casualties.


HAMAS are already at war and the Israeli incursion is for the sole purpose to remove ballistic weapons that pose a risk to Israeli civilians


What country do you live in? Both the UK and Australia supported the US invasion and Australia still publicly stands by the Afghanistan occupation. Most of the opposition is from non-aligned UN countries in the third world and middle east.


I think there is no dispute over the existence of Palestinian state. But that is a separate issue to HAMAS threatening the security of the Israel.


There is a universal charter of human rights that is being blatantly ignored in many parts of the world where mass murders are currently taking place such as Kurdish regions of Turkey, Burma, Sri Lanka, Tibet, parts of East Africa, Mexico, Colombia, Rwanda, Congo etc. The crocodile tears over civilian casualties in Palestine or Ukraine are because the victims are caucasian and/or the proximity to oil.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-21/gaza-death-toll-rises-to-over-500/5612948

Israel can't "win" in today's world. At best, they can "survive".

Arab women are willingly locked up and popping out millions of kids who're indoctrinated into violence from an early age out of hate, with said kids growing up and becoming the instigators to the perpetual violence.

It's kinda hilarious, really.

There is a big difference between unanimous and majority. In Gaza's population of 1.8 million, the 20% of electoral disapproval results in 360,000 people.



So not allowing in food or medicine and not allowing those told to evacuate out is A-OK because the US blockades Cuba? Blatant human rights violations are perfectly justifiable because of the despicable actions of others?



So the 20% are perfectly acceptable casualties to you?



If you believe the sole purpose is to eliminate ballistic weapons, you are deluding yourself. Have you noticed that every hospital, clinic, community center, buildinh housing a group with "human rights" in the name, and every mosque, and the home of every outspoken critic of the Israeli government or the IDF has been a target? It is about demoralization and annihilation, not violence. Although I am certain you are going to claim that every target has weapons in it.



The UK and Australia are far from the majority of the world. And the UN declared the invasion of Iraq to be illegal under international law.
According to the BBC, 73% of the global population disapproved of U.S. handling of the Iraq War. According to the Guardian, that majorities in the UK and Canada believed that the war in Iraq was "unjustified" and (UK) were critical of the government's support of U.S. policies in Iraq.



The initial position of Hamas (in 1988) was to liberate Palestine from Israeli occupation and to establish an Islamic Palestinian state. And it is a separate issue, despite the fact that you continue insist the existence of Hamas=justification for the destruction of the life, liberty, and livelihood of 1.8 million people (including a few hundred thousand Christians).



So the existence of human rights violations elsewhere somehow justifies human rights violations in Palestine? The violations in Palestine are not limited to civilian casualties, by the way, nor are these violations something that has just popped into existence now.

And just for the record, Palestine isn't sitting on huge oil reserves and they aren't considered white by the majority of the west's white population, so that argument of yours is completely worthless. I denounce any justification for depriving others of food and water, for the destruction of hospitals and places of worship, finding a 75% civilian death rate acceptable, the imprisonment of political enemies, and judging an entire population based on the most extreme among them.