I do believe in God

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Well, I am a Lutheran - and a Missouri Synod one at that. I know, I know, Missouri Synod guys are supposed to be some sort of Crypto-Calvinists/fundie wannabes. but we got stuck with that bad rep by the Midwestern clique running things in my church body.

Couldn't the same be said of all religions scriptures? That they are just a writing of man's experience with god. In which case, that would make Christianity on equal standings with all other religions and not the one true religion.

This is what I am so interested in. You can see that the bible is a collection of stories which in your words

"reflects the misconceptions, prejudices, and the lack of knowledge of its writers in the time it was written"

I really could not put this any more succinctly myself, yet even though you acknowledge these issues and the fact that it is not in any way a reliable source of historical evidence you cannot see the same also goes for the resurrection. Without The Ressurection Jesus would have been just another failed apocalyptic preacher. Given your critical thinking regarding the rest of the bible I ask you this;

What is more plausible, Jesus ,who in our earliest Christian writings did not claim to be the Son Of Man/God (this comes in later attestations), gets killed by the Romans, and is raised back to life (in a full physiological sense)and then ascends to heaven.

Or he was killed by the Romans, left to rot on the cross (as were all the crucified) and his bones were thrown into a common grave. A small number of his followers in their grief had visions of him and over time as word of these visions spread the story became ever increasingly fantastical?

All the ideology of the triune nature, dying to absolve our sins, come much later in the biblical narrative, and are purely the result of human philosophy.

It's the center of Christianity - Christ's Godhood, and his redemptive work through his death and resurrection - where faith comes in.
And what do you base your statement on that the original scriptures don't claim Christ as divine? I don't know of any early books (with the possible exception of the apocryphal texts) that leave that particular point out.

I read Kraichgauer;s statement as referring to the fact that the bible is flawed but it's up to the reader to discard what he believes is affected by ancient cultural mores.

Yeah, that's in part of what I was saying.

Some believe God created evolution.

That would be me.

The thing with the Bible is you cannot apply it to science. It's just what people wrote when they felt close to God long ago. We can all feel as close to God as they did. It doesn't mean giving up thinking, education. or science. With God you are never alone.

On the other hand, the scientific method can be applied to this.

I'm almost a bit saddened that you had to wrestle with any notion that the Bible was the only religious codex (claiming existence of deity) and that the existence of a central consciousness of any kind rose or fell on how well the Bible held up as a 1960's/1970's English-written tech manual. Makes me wonder how much further your thoughts would have progressed if you spent less time getting your idea stock on WP:PPR.

Last edited by techstepgenr8tion on 20 Jul 2014, 5:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

I fully understand the complete significance of the resurrection and the belief in the trinity.

However it is only in John (Written around 90 CE)where Jesus is explicitly described as being God, in the others Jesus is of Low Christology IE adopted son, human becoming god etc. It is only in John where we see High Christology ie Jesus as God, why if Jesus made the claims as laid out in John is something so significant ignored in the other (and earlier written) gospels. You need to realise that the terms found in the other gospels must be taken in contemporary context IE Messiah, Lord do NOT denote deity, also when read carefully it is clear when Jesus talks of the Son of man ( which anyhow is not a reference to a deity)he is talking about someone other than himself . Also there are the differing moments in time when Jesus becomes the Son of God , the low christology version puts it at his baptism or his resurrection, it is only later that christians claimed it was at his conception. If he was not a God or God at the time of his death, then he could not be god sacrificing himself for our sins (which even if you think he was God this concept is somewhat ridiculous)

As to the Trinity well that comes after John and can be rationally explained as the christians philosophising how one god can be several gods and coming up with the answer that they are separate and one at the same time, we have the evidence for this whether of not you continue to believe in Jesus the trinity is clearly a human construct.

But you also have Paul's letters, which are believed to predate all the Gospels, in which Christ is recognized as God incarnate.

God's greatest gift to mankind is the capacity for reason. Rejecting science, the product of that reason, is like rejecting God himself.

To all you fundie creationist who make up silly stories to validate your beliefs, let me quote Darth Vader--"I find your LACK OF FAITH disturbing."

The bible is a book. Awareness runs in and out of everything. It is all the same, and gets interpreted in hap hazard peculiar ways due to a lack of understanding. You just don't think so because you're you. Jesus was a sociopath. He is one under god. Just like what any other sociopath in a position of power tries to make people believe. (some actually try to make you believe they are god). He performed sociopathic cult group leadership. Performed miracles that defy logic, reason, physics, and science in relation to the daily world. In other words, it is a lie. Stoned, beaten, and put to death, because he didn't follow the rules, and wanted everyone to believe he was special. He had many followers. Just like the people who drank the kool-aid. And now people can come up with whatever storytime they want about him, and believe whatever they want, because he is dead. He was even resurrected. He is everywhere, and you can feel him. Another misinterpretation of the truth.

Gee, I must be the crazy one. Tell me it is so.