Its not a matter of if the system will collapse but when...

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Kurgan
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30 Jul 2014, 2:54 pm

zer0netgain wrote:

The only thing saving the USA from a full-blown economic collapse is that most every other industrialized nation is in the same boat as we are. So, it's not like past events where a strong nation take the #1 slot because their economy is strong.

Power will shift. Standards of living will change, but a radical "crash" might not actually happen because everything is equally bad on a global level.

I'd say it's far worse in Greece, for example.

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Gyrxiur
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30 Jul 2014, 4:47 pm

I am hoping for collapse, because I dislike current system, but I am afraid of it and of what will be after.

LostWayfinder
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30 Jul 2014, 6:19 pm

drh1138 wrote:

LostWayfinder wrote:

The upshot is capitalism may be replaced by something more humane.

20 million dead Soviet citizens might have something to say about the humaneness of socialism.

I do not want Marxism-Leninism. I want real grassroots democracy and local, bottom-up ownerships of the means of production.

kraftiekortie
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30 Jul 2014, 6:51 pm

You would have loved Thomas Jefferson!

Jacoby
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30 Jul 2014, 9:16 pm

Most of Europe isn't much better off than the US I imagine, I expect Europe will start looking more and more like the Europe of the early 20th centry

mr_bigmouth_502
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30 Jul 2014, 9:27 pm

Things are pretty fine where I am. I mean, we like to b***h and whine about our system, but we have things a lot better than people in most other countries. Of course, if the US quits buying oil from us, then that may be a problem. As much as renewable energy is better than fossil fuels, I'd rather see people getting their fossil fuels from here, where they can be harvested in a peaceful manner, than from the Middle East.

One thing I don't get though, why don't we use our own fossil fuels instead of importing from the Middle East?

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30 Jul 2014, 9:50 pm

downbutnotout wrote:

Possibly never. People disillusioned with the world have been "predicting" the end since there was anything to predict an end to. We're all still here, and all the disasters have been survived.

What is to say a system collapse is 'the end' perhaps the end of one thing the beginning of another, not really talking about extreme catastrophe that whipes out all humans. And history has all kind of collapses of various societies, its not like it hasn't happened numerous times before even societies that where thriving for a time.

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Last edited by Sweetleaf on 31 Jul 2014, 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

yournamehere
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30 Jul 2014, 10:04 pm

The end? You have got to be kidding? People breed like rabbits. They breed in the middle of wars, famine, catastrophic diseases. Whatever? If there was only one tiny island, with one person, and a bunch of snails on it, that person would find a way to breed with it.

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31 Jul 2014, 12:16 am

LoveNotHate wrote:

I don't think there will be any sudden "collapse". The standard of living will just steadily decline.

-there is room to raise taxes
-printing money does not have to end, so the debt can be slowly inflated away
-many countries stack Treasury paper in their vaults with the understanding that holding Treasury paper is playing "musical chairs", but may not
care, because it is not the leader(s) themselves that will personally suffer the loss
- the US dollar is the world's trading currency and counties deciding to not use dollars may face the wrath of the US
-and the biggest reason is the US military

Oh yes they can always declare martial law and claim the system is still functioning using the military to oppress citizens of their own country.

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Sweetleaf
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31 Jul 2014, 12:17 am

drh1138 wrote:

LostWayfinder wrote:

The upshot is capitalism may be replaced by something more humane.

20 million dead Soviet citizens might have something to say about the humaneness of socialism.

Not sure that is the best example of socialism, more an example of when a totalitarian government tries to pass itself off as 'socialism'.

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Sweetleaf
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31 Jul 2014, 12:24 am

Kurgan wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

I think I'll give it 5 years at most don't see it lasting much longer than that.....how long do all of you think it will be?

Then you can wait for a very long time. People have predicted the end of the US since the 1870s, and the end of capitalism since WWI. Far more people have been killed in the name of socialism than in the name of capitalism.

It would be intresting to see actual statistics on that, not entirely sure I buy it.....if by socialism you mean totalitarian systems with features of socialism then maybe, but in this point in time it seems more capitalist systems are certainly more common than anything resembling socialism.

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Sweetleaf
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31 Jul 2014, 12:25 am

yournamehere wrote:

Once again, not referring to the end....why would the entire planet end because human societies fall?

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AspergianMutantt
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31 Jul 2014, 12:58 am

As with all civilizations, eventually there is collapse for one reason or another, oddly enough though it seems the more war like countries tend to last the longest, just take Rome for example, they lasted thousands of years.

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LoveNotHate
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31 Jul 2014, 1:47 am

Quote:

a huge military isn't going to save the US.

For the US to fall someone has to instigate it. Who will stand up and say, "No more!"? Most world leaders would likely fear sticking their necks out. The US is known to find reasons to remove world leaders.

China? China gains political leverage by holding US debt, and Asian people are the largest immigrant group to the US, as well Chinese companies are buying up a lot of US properties and businesses, so it would not seem to be in their interest to crash the US.

Iran ? Iran was talking tough last year about not using the US dollar. Today we hear that the US sanctions are "crippling them", so that will probably shut them up for a long time.

Russia? They are bogged down in their messes, as today the US is asking Asian countries to impose sanctions on them.

The US military/intelligence people are on the watch to make sure everyone knows what is good for them.

So, who will stick their necks out and say "no more" to the US ?

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Sweetleaf
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31 Jul 2014, 4:15 am

Gyrxiur wrote:

I am hoping for collapse, because I dislike current system, but I am afraid of it and of what will be after.

Well I cannot say I am not afraid of it....not even all that confident I would survive long, but can't exactly help hoping for it either due to being fed up with the system more or less.

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Sweetleaf
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31 Jul 2014, 4:21 am

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

Maybe for now a lot of people here have things a lot better than people in other places, but not for long....in my opinion...also not even sure everyone here has it 'better' than everyone in most other countries, seems more and more as though that is becoming a lie people cling to because they don't want to recognize it will get just as bad here. Not to mention part of the reason so many other countries are worse off at the moment, is partially because of this country....and its corporate BS.

Also, fossil fuel isn't even necessary as alternatives can be found and its going to run out regardless of where we get it, then what will the oil industry do....if there even still is one let alone any sort of organized society by that time.

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