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Raptor
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12 Aug 2014, 10:27 pm

Every county with a population that can afford to eat well has fat people. It's never occurred to me to count the fat people anywhere I've been in the US or abroad. I figure someone's obesity is their concern, not mine.
It's not caused by lack of education, either. Public school systems has a comprehensive enough health education program. It's not necessary to major in the subject to know enough on the subject to take good care of oneself. People just eat too much, too much of the wrong things, and don't get enough exercise. Just because there is one of each fast food joint within a mile of you doesnt mean you have to visit each one that week (or that day like some do). It's not rocket science, it's about self control. People either have it or they don't.


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13 Aug 2014, 2:05 am

Eh, our bodies haven't caught up with our economic prosperity yet, and still think that things like fat and sugar are scarce and should be consumed as often as possible.


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13 Aug 2014, 7:00 am

Kurgan wrote:
Two things I've noticed:

- The entire Western-World seems to embrace hedonism and overindulgence
- Americans have a higher disposable income than anyone else


Of course people embrace hedonism. What else is there? It has been that way for a long time. There are many phrases for it, YOLO is just the newest. Memento mori (remember dying). Carpe diem (take the day). Nunc est bibendum! (Now is time to drink) The last two are from Horace so probably BC.
Not sure it's just income either. The Japanese, French etc are wealthy enough to become obese if they wanted to, but they probably have a national food tradition that just happens to have healthier food. I think Americans eat much more meat compared to Europeans.



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13 Aug 2014, 7:51 am

Empty calories from cokes,junk food and giant portions.I got a medium drink the other day from Arby's,it was huge.The size that used to be considered a large drink.


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Janissy
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13 Aug 2014, 8:02 am

Dox47 wrote:
Eh, our bodies haven't caught up with our economic prosperity yet, and still think that things like fat and sugar are scarce and should be consumed as often as possible.


Along those lines, this guy:

http://www.gnolls.org/2074/why-snack-fo ... ck-appeal/

What we evolved to want:

Quote:
Modern Technology, Paleolithic Tastes
The key to understanding snack food is to understand what foods were available to us in the Paleolithic, so that we can understand what our tastes are for. It?s impossible to overdose on sour or bitter because they?re aversive in large doses, so that leaves us with sweet (which also helps detect fat), salty, and umami.

Let?s examine fat: there was no such thing as ?vegetable oil? (actually seed oil) in the Paleolithic. The only year-round source of dietary fat was animals, with nuts a secondary, seasonal source. Therefore, our taste for fat is primarily a taste for animal fat?including all the fat-soluble vitamins (A, D, E, K2-MK4) found in animal fat, and for which fat is necessary to absorb.


A wild banana. Small, starchy, and mostly seeds.
Sweetness was limited by lack of availability. Paleolithic fruits were much smaller and more bitter than modern varieties, which have been bred for sweetness and seedlessness to the point of being unable to reproduce without human help?and they would not have always been available at their peak of ripeness, as they?re eaten by many other animals too. Honey has always been rare. And as the Drs. Jaminet note, it is entirely possible that sweet taste receptors do double duty as animal fat detectors.

Salt was difficult to obtain, except for those who lived near the ocean. And as Parmesan cheese and kombu dashi hadn?t yet been created, umami was limited to its natural source?meat.

In conclusion, we can see that our taste receptors are primarily geared towards obtaining fatty meat and salt, with nuts and sweet fruit as occasional bonuses. So it?s not surprising that we enjoy salty, fatty meat and sweet fruits.


We now have the technology and economic abundance to get all those things in extreme. The family dinner in 1955 U.S. hit all those marks of fatty/salty/sweet/umami. It was a time of famous economic abundance and people ate up. By today's standards they ate things of astonishing unhealthiness. That family dinner would feature a hunk of fatty red meat with mashed potatoes swimming in butter and salt, butter on peas and apple pie for dessert. It would make a modern nutritionist faint with horror. But they weren't fat.

They had the economic prosperity to afford fat and sugar in abundance but they weren't fat. But we (speaking collectively, not this board) are. The link I put in is a guy with pages upon pages of explanation. Worth a click, I think. But here is where he blames snack culture, which has replaced the 3-squares culture that was prevalent in the past.

Quote:
The Magic Of Snacks, Part I: Taste Without Nutrition
Just as a movie set?s only constraint is to look good for a few seconds from a limited set of camera angles, a snack food?s only constraint is to taste good until it slides down your throat.

And that?s what technology allows us to do: create products (?snacks?) that tickle our taste receptors far more than real food can ever hope to?but that don?t come with the nutrition that selected us to crave those tastes in the first place.

This is the reason that the concept ?eat whole foods, minimally processed? is generally sound: if whole foods taste good to us, it?s most likely because they contain nutrients we need, not because they?ve been engineered to tickle our taste buds. (Note that all modern fruits are heavily engineered products of thousands of years of careful breeding: read Dan Koeppel?s fascinating book ?Banana? for a look at one typical example.)



sonofghandi
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13 Aug 2014, 10:17 am

trollcatman wrote:
People in other countries are getting fatter too. I think the Americans are just leading in this trend, let's see if some other country overtakes them in the future.


We're #2. Mexico passed us recently.

Obesity is just another cultural export. Like eating disorders.


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13 Aug 2014, 1:18 pm

I recall a news story a few years ago concerning how in poor inner city neighborhoods obesity rates are especially bad. And that was quite simply because there were hardly any stores close by selling healthy food. Rather, the most available source of food, in this particular case, was crap made by Popeye's Chicken. I understand that the obesity epidemic is hardly a class matter, but the poor are especially suffering from it due to the lack of availability of proper foods.


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babybird
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13 Aug 2014, 1:44 pm

Thanks for all your responses everyone.

It has given me good food for thought.


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13 Aug 2014, 1:48 pm

sloth and apathy



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13 Aug 2014, 2:11 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
I recall a news story a few years ago concerning how in poor inner city neighborhoods obesity rates are especially bad. And that was quite simply because there were hardly any stores close by selling healthy food. Rather, the most available source of food, in this particular case, was crap made by Popeye's Chicken. I understand that the obesity epidemic is hardly a class matter, but the poor are especially suffering from it due to the lack of availability of proper foods.


This has been true of the poor for hundreds of years. That's why they love cheap high energy foods. Soul food in particular is all about making the best use of poor cuts of meat and scraps that white people didn't want. When you live in the ghetto, you aren't worried about poor nutrition.



tarantella64
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13 Aug 2014, 4:02 pm

AspE wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I recall a news story a few years ago concerning how in poor inner city neighborhoods obesity rates are especially bad. And that was quite simply because there were hardly any stores close by selling healthy food. Rather, the most available source of food, in this particular case, was crap made by Popeye's Chicken. I understand that the obesity epidemic is hardly a class matter, but the poor are especially suffering from it due to the lack of availability of proper foods.


This has been true of the poor for hundreds of years. That's why they love cheap high energy foods. Soul food in particular is all about making the best use of poor cuts of meat and scraps that white people didn't want. When you live in the ghetto, you aren't worried about poor nutrition.


You are when your kids are diabetic and you've got early-stage heart failure. Nice news on the subject, though:

http://blogs.democratandchronicle.com/r ... ty-issues/



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13 Aug 2014, 4:23 pm

One must remember, as well, that poor inner-city neighborhoods usually lack good supermarkets where one could get good deals. This is true in NYC. In the inner city, "bodegas" are dominant. While there are some small supermarkets, they tend to have convenience-store prices rather than supermarket prices. Since many inner-city residents don't have cars, they don't have much access to such supermarkets as Stop N Shop, where they could get reasonable prices for nutritious food.

Therefore, they are forced to rely on rice or pasta-based dishes bought in the bodegas, or from take-out places (mostly Chinese).



The_Face_of_Boo
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13 Aug 2014, 5:07 pm

Burgers.



Kraichgauer
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13 Aug 2014, 6:17 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
One must remember, as well, that poor inner-city neighborhoods usually lack good supermarkets where one could get good deals. This is true in NYC. In the inner city, "bodegas" are dominant. While there are some small supermarkets, they tend to have convenience-store prices rather than supermarket prices. Since many inner-city residents don't have cars, they don't have much access to such supermarkets as Stop N Shop, where they could get reasonable prices for nutritious food.

Therefore, they are forced to rely on rice or pasta-based dishes bought in the bodegas, or from take-out places (mostly Chinese).


With white flight from the inner cities, so went the businesses they ran, leaving poverty stricken African American without the means to buy proper food, or even places to buy it at.


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Misslizard
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13 Aug 2014, 6:26 pm

In some neighborhoods it's easier to find drugs or a gun than a tomato.
It would be great if there were more community gardens in urban areas,food for the body and the soul.


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13 Aug 2014, 7:20 pm

Some of it has to do with the Anglo-Saxon basis of the culture.

Obesity has always been more prevalent in the British Isles than on the continent.

Compare English or Scottish food to North American food, then contrast with most of the continent. Meat, potatoes, white bread, and rich pastry. Also evenings spent drinking beer and ale in a pub, after supper, followed by fish and chips wrapped in a newspaper.

The first time I was in England, I was astounded how similar the food was to the US. If you'd only ever been in the UK or the US, you might be more aware of the differences. But those differences are negligible when compared with what you encounter on the other side of the Channel.

On the other hand, the only times in my life when I've lost weight without trying (not counting when I had an operation a few years back) was when spending several weeks in France. This happened at least twice.


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