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Michael Brown shooting - justified?

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Ann2011
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15 Aug 2014, 11:10 pm

NobodyKnows wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
it doesn't really matter even if Brown resisted arrest violently tho, it is not justifiable to shot someone in the back that is running away


Is this from Dorian Johnson's testimony? I agree that body-cams will help, but without that, even the coroner's report may not clear this up completely. Since there were two allegedly violent people there, the officer could have fired defensively at one of them and still hit the other in the back. Without more witnesses or CCTV evidence, it's the officer's word against Johnson's.


Attorney: Dorian Johnson confirms he was with Brown at store robbery
Associated Press



Dillogic
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16 Aug 2014, 12:57 am

Yeah, and good luck with anyone believing his eyewitness account if it goes to court (I don't see why it has to unless it's proven via forensics that something is amiss with the shooting events).



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16 Aug 2014, 3:59 am

Okay, Brown was an assh*le who stole from a store, threatened the employees there, and apparently struck the officer who had stopped him before running away. But if he did in fact stop and raise his hands to surrender, then his death was in no way justified.


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16 Aug 2014, 4:06 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
But if he did in fact stop and raise his hands to surrender, then his death was in no way justified.


Of course.

That's what the investigation is for.



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16 Aug 2014, 4:16 am

Dillogic wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
But if he did in fact stop and raise his hands to surrender, then his death was in no way justified.


Of course.

That's what the investigation is for.


I suspect a fair and impartial investigation will have to be carried out by some agency other than the Ferguson PD, as they have zero credibility with much of their citizens.


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16 Aug 2014, 8:15 am

The reality that matters is what did the officer know (and what events happened) at the time of the shooting. What we can dig up now is irrelevant.



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16 Aug 2014, 8:39 am

The media and public love these stories there is a slow a drip of information, which leaves plenty of scope for speculation.

In light of that, I think that they should not be protesting too soon, nor giving the cop a medal.

Brown's friend should be charged with abetting a theft.

I also feel the victim of the theft is being ignored.



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16 Aug 2014, 3:47 pm

I'd say with confidence if Brown was a white man he'd still be alive.


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16 Aug 2014, 5:23 pm

thomas81 wrote:
I'd say with confidence if Brown was a white man he'd still be alive.


you give American police too much credit

they'll find reason to kill anyone, plenty of young whites and hispanics have also fallen victim to them

they also have a made a habit of blasting puppies in the face too

most cops are despicable people all around



Last edited by Jacoby on 16 Aug 2014, 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Kraichgauer
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16 Aug 2014, 6:41 pm

Jacoby wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
I'd say with confidence if Brown was a white man he'd still be alive.


you give American police to much credit

they'll find reason to kill anyone, plenty of young whites and hispanics have also fallen victim to them

they also have a made a habit of blast puppies in the face too

most cops are despicable people all around


In neighboring Spokane, here in Washington state, an off duty janitor named Otto Zehm, had been beaten then hogged tied by police, after which he died of asphyxiation. The "why" was, he had apparently frightened a couple teenage girls at an ATM, as he was being treated for schizophrenia and came across as sometimes odd, and so the girls reported for some reason that he was trying to break into the cash machine. Zehm was lily white, and was a vulnerable person because of his mental health issues. The Spokane PD had claimed Zehm had attacked the arresting officer - - until it came to light that the store the incident happened in had a security camera showing the officer stepping up behind Zehm and clubbing him repeatedly into unconsciousness. A security tape the Spokane police had fought long and hard to have suppressed, I might add. The pr*ck of a cop got a standing salute from his "brothers in blue" upon his conviction. :evil:
While most victims of police abuse are black, it can and does happen to whites, too.


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16 Aug 2014, 9:22 pm

Probably not, but I'll wait on the full investigation.


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16 Aug 2014, 9:28 pm

if he has a bullet in his back, and he is unarmed, the shooting is unjustified



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17 Aug 2014, 9:52 pm

Dillogic wrote:
Yeah, and good luck with anyone believing his eyewitness account if it goes to court (I don't see why it has to unless it's proven via forensics that something is amiss with the shooting events).


Granted, but there is an independent witness who has testified she saw Brown wrestling with the cop in the car, he then got out and ran, the cop shot twice and hit him, Brown stopped, dropped, put his hands up and the cop walked up and shot him twice more, killing him.


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17 Aug 2014, 10:28 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:
Dillogic wrote:
Yeah, and good luck with anyone believing his eyewitness account if it goes to court (I don't see why it has to unless it's proven via forensics that something is amiss with the shooting events).


Granted, but there is an independent witness who has testified she saw Brown wrestling with the cop in the car, he then got out and ran, the cop shot twice and hit him, Brown stopped, dropped, put his hands up and the cop walked up and shot him twice more, killing him.


The main witness that I've found is Dorian Johnson, who allegedly stood outside while Brown robbed a store and attacked a person working there. Here's what he says:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/1 ... 71156.html
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/eyewitness-m ... g-missouri
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... 13992387/#

Other than that, I find a nearby resident who calims to have shot video of the aftermath:

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow ... story.html

That story conflicts with Johnson's.

Another point: If you hit someone hard enough to make their face swell up (allegedly what happened to the officer), their vision may be blurred. That would leave him in a very bad position: unable to shoot reliably, but completely at the mercy of someone who'd just attacked him if he didn't.



Last edited by NobodyKnows on 17 Aug 2014, 11:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Jacoby
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17 Aug 2014, 10:37 pm

Mike Brown was shot 6 times, twice in head and likely from a distance. If Brown was running away it doesn't matter if he punched the cop out in his car, it is murder.



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17 Aug 2014, 10:54 pm

Jacoby wrote:
If Brown was running away it doesn't matter if he punched the cop out in his car, it is murder.


It'd be simple to prove whether he was running to or from the officer.

I'm betting it was the former, but that's just a bet.

If the former, it's entirely justified.

If the latter, it still might not be "murder". You'd have to prove that the officer intended to kill Brown, rather than intending to stop a felon from escaping.