Do you think IS jihadis should be stripped of citizenship?

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They aren't prisoners of war in the classical sense. IS is not actually a state, and besides, war crimes are typically tried in the Hague, under the international criminal court.

This is arguably not incorrect, nor is it a principled argument against them being court-martialed and shot if they ever return.

Okay, quite a few states treat prior felons as somewhat virtual 'non-persons', IE, certain rights that US Citizens take for granted are taken away from them. Namely, the right to vote in elections, as well as the right to bear arms.

I realise that the latter is non-issue in the UK as people generally cannot own firearms there save for the occaisional single shot shotgun, but can prior felons actually vote in national or regional elections, there as well?

I think organized criminal movements - whether mafia or religious radicals - need a special kind of treatment above just the lone sociopath. Essentially these kinds of things are why our world has to be at war, they're part of why the US spends so much money on its global presence, and - aside from the Chinese debt issue - its one of the only small group of reasons why I've been forced to vote Republican (in the US) every election since I turned 18 in 1998.

So yes, I'm all for religious extremism being treated as particularly heinous, particularly with how contagious ontological diseases of the mind can be - either by Stockholm syndrome or just by disaffection and confusion that all kinds of people run into at various stages of their lives that can make then vulnerable to that sort of thing.

Firearms laws are actually one of the most frequently misunderstood aspects of UK laws. What you say is technically incorrect but that is another discussion.

Yes prior felons can vote. Just not prisoners.

I'd bet that denying the vote after someone has served their sentence, and is not currently serving out any legal punishment for a felony would be have a good case to be unconstitutional in the US, even if some states are practicing this.

Even regulated or probated citizens, such as sex offender and fraudster have the right to vote when served their sentence.


If you don't have a fixed address, I believe it more difficult to register to vote, but not impossible.

They should be locked up for life. Don't send them to Scotland, though. They don't seem to grasp the concept of a life sentence for terrorists.

Yes because they are subhuman shoot them on site or make them blow themselves up since they like doing that in the middle of nowhere! If it was up to me id just round em all up send them to Antarctica and toss em all overboard into the ocean so they all freeze to death and realize that their sky daddy is not going to help them or save them!

Last edited by AspieOtaku on 24 Aug 2014, 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

The women's complaints aren't taken seriously by anyone, probably? Also, I've read that ISIS does things that "win hearts and minds":



http://www.theatlantic.com/internationa ... te/372769/

The media seems to want to paint ISIS as simple savages, but while they're savages they're not simple.

My view?

Slaughter them.

Sounds like the west has already lost then. I couldn't help wondering why ISIS were making such rapid progress with their expansion; it seems they are largely welcomed by the population! ISIS gives the locals an offer they can't refuse - accept the "improvements" and "stability" they bring or die. American bombs aren't going to win many "hearts and minds" amongst the locals.

Regarding the original question; yes, those who have been involved in barbaric acts should be stripped of their citizenship and the only return permissible directly to a prison cell.

And create more martyrs for their cause and thus make the problem worse?

New rule: people who call for other people's deaths don't get to describe themselves as "liberal" or "libertarian" or any variation thereupon.

My view is that a lot of these men will have joined ISIS out of naivety because they think it is the best way to help Syrians. We messed up in a big way by not differentiating between the likes of ISIS and the likes of the FSA earlier. That doesn't mean that the actions of the Islamists are at all justified, it means that some recruits may not be devoted to the evil cause.

Everyone who has fought with ISIS should be imprisoned on their return. They should stand trial in a civilian court. If we can show that they have killed, they should be charged with murder and feel the full force of the law. Otherwise, they should be punished appropriately for any other crimes they have committed.

The problem is an political discourse is a mixture of blowing off stream/emotion and the practical realities.

We still need practical processes, we need some principles and values, otherwise were become what we are against.

These people hide behind masks. That doesn't mean we can be like Hamas, and just execute a bunch of people we suspect. However I do think we could characterize the situation in Syria and Iraq as a war like state, therefore we should treat those that to go there whatever reason specially, then we can begin to hone in on the high risk people. it is not easy due to large amount of deception.

Really this is an ideological battle that need to be won through destroying their ideology. Firefighting hasn't prevented it. Huge military spend hasn't prevented it. I'm not saying the isn't a place for it, but we have failed on the other fronts.

I'm on the fence because media like or not plays a role in conflict, and there is some other compelling reason to allow travel otherwise I would be more for banning it. However even a ban wouldn't prevent it. Most have come via Turkey. That is a front that is potentially very vulnerable, and the behavior of the government doesn't really provide us with confidence.

One thing is the individual planed attacks like cell, but what is even more an issue is more permanent campaigns, with supply routes, how ISIS in being successful int he region now.

We need to divide them, we need to cut of their funding even if it means taking drastic measure with the gulf states, as well as literally destroying their other revenue streams like oil fields (I wouldn't even say recapture them, but first destroy the capacity). Then we need a coherent strategy to deal with the victim mentality int he region, but treating is a the clinical neurosis that it is. We need to empower minorities without the existential conflict attitude that has dogged previous regimes.

I also think we need to de-internationalise the situation in Israel/Palestine but forcing the two side to meet regular without any mediator or outside influences through the power of sanctions.

As much as I would like to support the FSA, originally it splintered from other opposition. There is no reason to assume it has democratic intentions. As is not so easy to differentiate, people are not born with tags which you can pigeonhole these people, traveling. ISIS fighters often wear masks there are well versed in subterfuge and deception.

SA support of groups like FSA has no doubt helped to strengthen ISIS and also they are doing it for sectarian reason not dissimilar to ISIS.

None of this address the problem of paranoia, mutual suspicious and factionalism that has been boiling over in the region for 13 centuries. It is an inability to get along that is really at issue. You wouldn't have moment like Nasserism, Baathism on the one hand or the Sheik and Ayatollahs on the other hand if this wasn't the case. Same for central Asia.

A while back I heard a commentator on National radio suggested that if, rather than the US and its allies spending US$650 million a day prosecuting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, they pent it Health, Education and Infrastructure instead, then the radicals would never be able to gain a foothold in the society as all but a tiny % would fall head over heals in love with the west.

ISIS are the product of our own ill conceived meddling in affairs. A couple of years ago I pointed out to my partner that the CIA were supporting and arming Jihadists in a machiavellian scheme to overthrow Assad. At the time she thought I was mad, unfortunately for the people of mosel and kurdish Iraq I am not.

So yes as appalled and disgusted as I am by ISIS I am also appalled and disgusted by the behaviour and antics of my government and its comrades in arms, or should I say arms dealing.

Maybe we should amend tallymans policy, throw all captured JIhadist's and members of governments who voted for the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq as well as the sections of the CIA and NSA who armed the Mujahedeen and the factions who became ISIS onto the same island. Rather not the Isle of White I have fond memories of the place and it would wreck Cowes week.

People that slaughter civilians must be stopped. They are an enemy of democracy and civilisation. The same with Hamas or any other Talibani bastards.

In very specific circumstances I agree with the death penalty too, but not for ordinary criminals.

Does that get me wingnut points?