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Time frozen before Big Bang

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Kurgan
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08 Sep 2014, 6:37 pm

Humanaut wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
If the recent notion by Stephen Hawking is true (i.e. Black holes are not inherently black), time does not stop, it just goes very slowly.

Makes little sense. Time doesn't exist in itself. It is just a quantification of relative motion.


Actually, most scientists believe that time exists, just not in the way we perceive it (experiments have shown that on a quantum level, the near future can affect the present). Without it, there would be no motion.


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Humanaut
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08 Sep 2014, 7:19 pm

It is known as the reification fallacy.



Kraichgauer
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08 Sep 2014, 7:21 pm

I have no problem with God being the prime mover in the Big Bang, and that he has always been beyond time and space - or in this case, lack of it. Just my opinion.


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Kurgan
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08 Sep 2014, 7:44 pm

Humanaut wrote:
It is known as the reification fallacy.


No, it's not. The notion that time does not exist is unfalsifiable. Seconds, hours, and any standard of meassurement based on the Earth's motion is an abstraction. Time dilation is physically proven, and well meassured by the LHC.


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Humanaut
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08 Sep 2014, 8:27 pm

Kurgan wrote:
Time dilation is physically proven, and well meassured by the LHC.

It doesn't mean that time exists as a phenomenon in itself.



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08 Sep 2014, 9:17 pm

^^^
Time/space are theoretically part of the same phenomenon although they appear separate. A black-hole is supposedly outside of the space-time continuum.



Tollorin
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08 Sep 2014, 10:55 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
I have no problem with God being the prime mover in the Big Bang, and that he has always been beyond time and space - or in this case, lack of it. Just my opinion.

Strangely enough Augustine of Hippo said that God created time with the Universe, he lived in 4th-5th century AD



Kraichgauer
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08 Sep 2014, 11:06 pm

Tollorin wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I have no problem with God being the prime mover in the Big Bang, and that he has always been beyond time and space - or in this case, lack of it. Just my opinion.

Strangely enough Augustine of Hippo said that God created time with the Universe, he lived in 4th-5th century AD


Interesting - especially since Augustine had been a major influence on Luther, and I am a Lutheran.


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sonofghandi
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09 Sep 2014, 2:35 pm

Humanaut wrote:
It doesn't mean that time exists as a phenomenon in itself.


Time exists in itself, but not really the limited way we can experience it. Time is more of a measurement between two points referenced to other measured aspects for a given set of known and measured conditions.

Time "travels" at different speeds in a measurable way even at different heights within the same room, and can be accurately calculated before being measured. Time doesn't really move in one "direction," either. We can only sense it one way as referenced to conditions right here and processed by a set of somewhat questionable organic electric impulses.

Polarized and encoded photons can now be measured "traveling backwards" through time, leading to a very real possibility of breaking through Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle. Although these results are very recent (and need to be independently tested thoroughly), it could possibly once and for all determine whether anti-particles are actually "traveling backwards" through time or just appear to.


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09 Sep 2014, 3:20 pm

sonofghandi wrote:
Time exists in itself, but not really the limited way we can experience it.

Time is nothing more than an abstract concept formed based on relative motion. Imagined discrepancies in the speed and/or linearity of this simple concept is nothing more than an indication of something influencing the measurements. Something that we do not know the true nature of. It could be an effect of the aether, a superluminal phenomenon, or something else. We don't know.



Kurgan
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09 Sep 2014, 3:28 pm

Humanaut wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Time dilation is physically proven, and well meassured by the LHC.

It doesn't mean that time exists as a phenomenon in itself.


How else would you explain time dilation?


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Humanaut
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09 Sep 2014, 3:45 pm

Kurgan wrote:
Humanaut wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Time dilation is physically proven, and well meassured by the LHC.

It doesn't mean that time exists as a phenomenon in itself.

How else would you explain time dilation?

I wouldn't. An explanation presupposes valid data, which is lacking.



Kurgan
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09 Sep 2014, 4:04 pm

Humanaut wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Humanaut wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Time dilation is physically proven, and well meassured by the LHC.

It doesn't mean that time exists as a phenomenon in itself.

How else would you explain time dilation?

I wouldn't. An explanation presupposes valid data, which is lacking.


There's plenty of valid data for it. Experiments carried out with very accurate clocks and aircrafts have proven this many times.

http://news.discovery.com/human/psychol ... tivity.htm

By denying time dilation, you're beating a dead horse.


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Humanaut
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09 Sep 2014, 4:16 pm

I'm not disputing the data.



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09 Sep 2014, 4:45 pm

My thoughts? That it's incredibly arrogant to think that we know anything about what the universe was like before the big bang.



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09 Sep 2014, 4:55 pm

Not just about the Big Bang though. I'm sure lots of the theories and data is incorrect regarding stellar-phenomenon that's outside of our solar system since even "close" stars are unimaginably far away.