Why are these women being locked up with men?

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So asking for a post to be deleted for blatant transphobia is censorship?

Oh nevermind, you're Security_Code / Personal_box.

you outright said because of your feelings. emperical data is not an argument, or reason to try and get someone deleted/censored. and no its not blatantly transphobic not adopting your culture =/= biggotry.

no one has to respect or adopt your culture, no one has to adopt or use the gender pronouns someone wants they are not entitled to that. or anything. is it respectful to be nice to people and treat them how they would like to be treated? yes are they entitled to that no.


Yes I am. thanks for being a little more productive this time. I tried to give you a olive branch last conversation but you took offense for some reason.

Prisons are messed up places, while there are many there that don't deserve to be there and are no threat to anyone there also many that are. I've had relatives that has worked at max security prisons and they're not places anyone wants to be, you can't trust anyone. That's the inmates, guards, staff, no one.

Sexual assault is a real problem in all prisons and incarceration in general is inhumane and counter productive more times than not.

Call beneficii by male pronouns and refer to her as a "man", I dare you to. Ignorance is not tolerated here.

So by your logic, I don't have to respect someone who is judgmental like you are.

and your tone is unproductive as usual, I'll drop the conversation after this post its already proven my point. "adopt our culture or we will use mob violence against you. adopt our culture become one of the post modern borg"

its still just different cultures man, different cultures can't be ignorant haven't even said I'm arguing for the other side just said how insanely you report anything un-pc is a bit much tone it down a bit. I understand the concept of gender identity perfectly, and have talked about it way longer than you have. its not a complex subject, its not a deep one. culture built around feelings instead of facts is a waste of time imo. a more objective language and culture with out gender identity would be more productive. With out pronouns, but I have no idea how to solve the concept of sex organized prisons so not much to really input on that main topic.

Not if you don't want to I'm perfectly happy to have a happy discussion with you. and show one single post where I've shown any judgment, you are the one being judgmental here. so I'm done, you are overly aggressive in every conversation and try to silence me when you can't reply or win when I try and have simple arguments/debates where I go out of my way to respect you and think of how you might reply in advance to give you a decent conversation with no fluff or pointless conversations.. you are free to feel any way you want about me or talk to me in whatever manner I simply don't care.

anyways dropping out of the convo see you in another thread. senpai.

also if you want to know my real opinions gender is a cultural concept, cultural is not humanity or logics friend, we do not need a different culture even if its subjectively better.

which was my argument all along both of you are just promoting different culture with are both ideas, and wrong. based in feelings or tradition(the gender binary which you think I'm arguing for.), both imo, are wrong and a waste of time.

also I think what you are doing here is called "concern trolling"

Last edited by The_fire_rises on 17 Nov 2014, 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

There are many factors of sex and gender identity development that do not depend directly on genetics, but instead hormones, and hormones coming at the right time, and who knows what other factors in the early years of a person's life? This is how you get intersex conditions; it's also how you get the sense of your body or gender role being not quite right.

It's quite different from a cat. To get a cat instead of a human, you're going to have to make some huge genetic adjustments indeed.

There are also species that depend more on their genetics for sexual development, such as the chicken/rooster. There are known cases of a chicken/rooster chimera where one side of the body had male characteristics and the other side had female characteristics. This would not occur in the human development of the primary and secondary sexual characteristics, because those rely so much more on hormones coming at the right time. Even a human male/female chimera is going to either have ambiguous genitalia (because of problems with hormones) or they may develop the genitalia of one of the sexes thanks to the dominance of the hormones that engender that sex's development, with the cells coded for the opposite sex being made to develop as the sex they're not coded for by hormones (and they can do that!). Human 46 XY cells can develop in either a male or female way, because of the influence of hormones; the same is true with human 46 XX cells. With the chicken, however, the male-coded cells will develop as male and the female-coded cells will develop as female, because sexual development in the chicken is so much more directly dependent on the genetics.

People that don't feel that they're male or female (true asexual), are completely "unnatural", as being nothing isn't male or female.

Hence, you can't draw a clear line with this -- so it's easier to just go with how you physically are. Naturally, going through with a sex change, and then being actually physically female as much as possible (having female bits, losing the male hormones that make you stronger, and whatnot), would then push someone into the "female" jail.

Uh, no. It just means they're not constantly aware of their gender identity.

When it comes to transgenders its hard for those on the either male or female gender majority to grasp since quite a lot of transgenders born are born with both genitalia and it makes other genders confused and scared, most are female with a penis as well as a vagina which biblethumpers scowl at!

It seems that the concept of gender identity is dismissed by many in this thread. Let us look, shall we, outside of the trans community for some examples where gender identity was important.

A woman, a feminist, as an experiment, tried living as a man for a year. She didn't feel particularly male or anything; she just wanted to give it a shot. It didn't work out too well, and the stress of pretending to be a man eventually caused her to commit herself into a mental hospital.

For a movie with a pre-op trans woman, a cis woman was playing the role. As part of the role, she had to wear a prosthetic penis. She loathed wearing that prosthetic penis and was always glad to take it off at the end of the day. It appears her strong female gender identity made the prosthetic penis unbearable.

Two twin boys were born in a Canada and were circumcised. There was an accident in the circumcision for one of the boys, whose penis was lost. On the advice of one Dr. Money, the parents raised the penis-less boy as a girl, believing in a blank slate development of gender identity. The boy hated it. He knew something was wrong and when he finally got the truth out of his parents, he demanded to go back to living as a boy. Clearly, this boy's gender identity was important. In addition, he said something interesting that I think we should all keep in mind. I'm paraphrasing it here, but it goes like this: Yeah, I can take there was an accident on the circumcision; accidents are rare and that wasn't really what troubled me. What troubled me was the way they kept pushing and pushing over and over again living as a girl on me. They compounded the problem majorly!

As for the development of gender identity, there is evidence that among those with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome (develops as a woman, but has XY chromosomes and the body cannot respond to testosterone), a male gender identity is extremely rare, and appears to be rarer than in typical XX people. In fact, there is only a single case report of a CAIS person who identified as a male, and the report concluded that the person might have had some sensitivity to testosterone.

In fact, in the intersex community, different gender identities seem to appear at different rates depending on the condition. There is a big movement in the intersex community not to do any genital surgery on infants unless it is necessary for the life of the infant and to let the intersex person decide when they're ready what their gender identity is.

How do you know that?

Someone that doesn't identify as male or female would be exactly that. Neither male or female in thought, so they wouldn't do male or female things (or if they do, it's due to coercion).

These people exist, right?

And it's no different to someone thinking they're a chicken.

Um, it's quite different. Thinking you're a chicken would be a delusion. On the other hand, knowing you body is male or female, but does not match the way that fits in your head, is not; neither is taking steps to try to live a life and get a body more comfortable. There's a very clear difference.

i would think that if men who claimed that they were women were being locked up with women, then many toms dick and harry would be using it as an excuse to get some action from desperate female inmates.

Yes, because as we all know, distinguishing between someone who has lived years as a woman and a man who just comes up with the idea on the spot is clearly impossible. [/sarcasm]

You don't think that what occurs in people's heads and hearts is important? If that were the case, we could shut down psychology, psychiatry, and most of neuroscience, and ignore anything anyone ever says to us.