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adult sentences for minors

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Do you think minors should be tried as adults for crimes they've committed?
yes 31%  31%  [ 8 ]
no 69%  69%  [ 18 ]
Total votes : 26

auntblabby
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29 Nov 2014, 11:59 pm

Protogenoi wrote:
r2d2 wrote:
There is a reason why we have age of consent laws. There is a reason why one has to be a certain age to drive a car, buy alcohol, vote, join the military, sign a binding legal contract or live completely on their own with no parent or guardian. This is the same reason why minors should not be tried and sentenced as adults. If a person is not old enough to consent for sex with an adult, drive a car, buy alcohol, vote, join the military, sign a binding legal contract or live completely on their own with no adult guidance - then they are certainly not old enough to be held equally accountable as an adult either.


I just find it funny, in a dark way, that the military is allowed for younger people than some other things...

why is it better for an 18 year old to kill on the battlefield than it is for that same 18 year old to go to the local tavern and get lubricated?



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30 Nov 2014, 2:26 am

eric76 wrote:
r2d2 wrote:
There is a reason why we have age of consent laws. There is a reason why one has to be a certain age to drive a car, buy alcohol, vote, join the military, sign a binding legal contract or live completely on their own with no parent or guardian. This is the same reason why minors should not be tried and sentenced as adults. If a person is not old enough to consent for sex with an adult, drive a car, buy alcohol, vote, join the military, sign a binding legal contract or live completely on their own with no adult guidance - then they are certainly not old enough to be held equally accountable as an adult either.


Why do we so often have an idea of a single age at which everyone magically transitions from being a child to an adult?

It makes far more sense to have a progression of stages with some possibly determine by other factors than by age.

Instead of becoming an "adult" overnight, one should slide into it naturally.

In any event, I knew someone who was executed by the state for a murder he committed before he turned 18. I have absolutely no problem with that. The only thing that I didn't like was how long it took them to do it.


There might be some point to have a different drinking than vote age which is generally the case in the United States. But at the very least if a person is too young to consent for sex on the basis that they are incapable of culpability on such an important personal matter - incapable of consent according to the law - It would be irrational to turn around and say that they have adult culpability in making decisions about committing a crime. Furthermore, we know scientifically that the brain has not fully developed its impulse control mechanisms until one is in their early-mid 20's. This is a scientific fact. That is not say that they have no culpability - it simply not rational to say they have full adult culpability in crime but no culpability in consenting to sex.


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eric76
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30 Nov 2014, 5:36 am

r2d2 wrote:
eric76 wrote:
r2d2 wrote:
There is a reason why we have age of consent laws. There is a reason why one has to be a certain age to drive a car, buy alcohol, vote, join the military, sign a binding legal contract or live completely on their own with no parent or guardian. This is the same reason why minors should not be tried and sentenced as adults. If a person is not old enough to consent for sex with an adult, drive a car, buy alcohol, vote, join the military, sign a binding legal contract or live completely on their own with no adult guidance - then they are certainly not old enough to be held equally accountable as an adult either.


Why do we so often have an idea of a single age at which everyone magically transitions from being a child to an adult?

It makes far more sense to have a progression of stages with some possibly determine by other factors than by age.

Instead of becoming an "adult" overnight, one should slide into it naturally.

In any event, I knew someone who was executed by the state for a murder he committed before he turned 18. I have absolutely no problem with that. The only thing that I didn't like was how long it took them to do it.


There might be some point to have a different drinking than vote age which is generally the case in the United States. But at the very least if a person is too young to consent for sex on the basis that they are incapable of culpability on such an important personal matter - incapable of consent according to the law - It would be irrational to turn around and say that they have adult culpability in making decisions about committing a crime. Furthermore, we know scientifically that the brain has not fully developed its impulse control mechanisms until one is in their early-mid 20's. This is a scientific fact. That is not say that they have no culpability - it simply not rational to say they have full adult culpability in crime but no culpability in consenting to sex.


If a kid hasn't learned by the age of at least 15 not to kill people or to steal from them or to commit major assaults, then the kid is too dangerous to be permitted among the general public. If he has learned but just don't care, then he needs to be locked up for extend periods of time even more.



r2d2
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30 Nov 2014, 5:57 am

eric76 wrote:
r2d2 wrote:
eric76 wrote:
r2d2 wrote:
There is a reason why we have age of consent laws. There is a reason why one has to be a certain age to drive a car, buy alcohol, vote, join the military, sign a binding legal contract or live completely on their own with no parent or guardian. This is the same reason why minors should not be tried and sentenced as adults. If a person is not old enough to consent for sex with an adult, drive a car, buy alcohol, vote, join the military, sign a binding legal contract or live completely on their own with no adult guidance - then they are certainly not old enough to be held equally accountable as an adult either.


Why do we so often have an idea of a single age at which everyone magically transitions from being a child to an adult?

It makes far more sense to have a progression of stages with some possibly determine by other factors than by age.

Instead of becoming an "adult" overnight, one should slide into it naturally.

In any event, I knew someone who was executed by the state for a murder he committed before he turned 18. I have absolutely no problem with that. The only thing that I didn't like was how long it took them to do it.


There might be some point to have a different drinking than vote age which is generally the case in the United States. But at the very least if a person is too young to consent for sex on the basis that they are incapable of culpability on such an important personal matter - incapable of consent according to the law - It would be irrational to turn around and say that they have adult culpability in making decisions about committing a crime. Furthermore, we know scientifically that the brain has not fully developed its impulse control mechanisms until one is in their early-mid 20's. This is a scientific fact. That is not say that they have no culpability - it simply not rational to say they have full adult culpability in crime but no culpability in consenting to sex.


If a kid hasn't learned by the age of at least 15 not to kill people or to steal from them or to commit major assaults, then the kid is too dangerous to be permitted among the general public. If he has learned but just don't care, then he needs to be locked up for extend periods of time even more.


So you feel that the age of consent should be lowered to 15?


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30 Nov 2014, 7:11 am

Well, that would only mean reducing it by one year...



eric76
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30 Nov 2014, 12:03 pm

r2d2 wrote:
eric76 wrote:
r2d2 wrote:
eric76 wrote:
r2d2 wrote:
There is a reason why we have age of consent laws. There is a reason why one has to be a certain age to drive a car, buy alcohol, vote, join the military, sign a binding legal contract or live completely on their own with no parent or guardian. This is the same reason why minors should not be tried and sentenced as adults. If a person is not old enough to consent for sex with an adult, drive a car, buy alcohol, vote, join the military, sign a binding legal contract or live completely on their own with no adult guidance - then they are certainly not old enough to be held equally accountable as an adult either.


Why do we so often have an idea of a single age at which everyone magically transitions from being a child to an adult?

It makes far more sense to have a progression of stages with some possibly determine by other factors than by age.

Instead of becoming an "adult" overnight, one should slide into it naturally.

In any event, I knew someone who was executed by the state for a murder he committed before he turned 18. I have absolutely no problem with that. The only thing that I didn't like was how long it took them to do it.


There might be some point to have a different drinking than vote age which is generally the case in the United States. But at the very least if a person is too young to consent for sex on the basis that they are incapable of culpability on such an important personal matter - incapable of consent according to the law - It would be irrational to turn around and say that they have adult culpability in making decisions about committing a crime. Furthermore, we know scientifically that the brain has not fully developed its impulse control mechanisms until one is in their early-mid 20's. This is a scientific fact. That is not say that they have no culpability - it simply not rational to say they have full adult culpability in crime but no culpability in consenting to sex.


If a kid hasn't learned by the age of at least 15 not to kill people or to steal from them or to commit major assaults, then the kid is too dangerous to be permitted among the general public. If he has learned but just don't care, then he needs to be locked up for extend periods of time even more.


So you feel that the age of consent should be lowered to 15?


Why should the age of consent be the same as when one is held fully responsible for major crimes? I see no reason at all to equate the two.



noodler
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30 Nov 2014, 1:16 pm

To me, the ability to have consentual intercourse is strongly tied to one's ability to make life and death decisions, such as murder. Isn't that why rapists often get sentences similar to murderers in the U.S..



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30 Nov 2014, 1:34 pm

Magneto wrote:
Well, that would only mean reducing it by one year...
Only in North Carolina and I think a handful of other places. In most of the country, it's 18.

Because 17 year old kids don't have sex. Nope. They don't even know about it. *nods*



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30 Nov 2014, 1:39 pm

auntblabby wrote:
I think it was V who was the 'path.


That would make sense, but it's strange there's no mention of the other one after release. He must have really kept his nose clean.



eric76
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30 Nov 2014, 2:04 pm

Persimmonpudding wrote:
Magneto wrote:
Well, that would only mean reducing it by one year...
Only in North Carolina and I think a handful of other places. In most of the country, it's 18.

Because 17 year old kids don't have sex. Nope. They don't even know about it. *nods*


17 in Texas. If the two are within three years of age of each other, they only need to both be older than 14.

Historically, it was considerably younger. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent#History_and_social_attitudes:
Quote:
In the United States, as late as the 1880s most States set the minimum age at 10–12, (in Delaware it was 7 in 1895)



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30 Nov 2014, 4:30 pm

Wow! Kids in Texas must be very smart! They can figure out the Part A and Part B dichotomy THAT young! Woo! Here in North Carolina, our kids don't figure that complicated stuff out until they are 16, and I understand that, elsewhere, kids are so stupid they don't really "put the pieces together" until they're 18! My GAWD! 8O



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30 Nov 2014, 5:10 pm

noodler wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
I think it was V who was the 'path.


That would make sense, but it's strange there's no mention of the other one after release. He must have really kept his nose clean.

the other one demonstrated some remorse early on, from what I read. what he did probably will haunt him until his dying day.



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30 Nov 2014, 6:32 pm

auntblabby wrote:
noodler wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
I think it was V who was the 'path.


That would make sense, but it's strange there's no mention of the other one after release. He must have really kept his nose clean.

the other one demonstrated some remorse early on, from what I read. what he did probably will haunt him until his dying day.


I imagine it will. But it's good he's dealing with it properly.Or he'd probably be like the other one.



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01 Dec 2014, 6:13 am

In the USA, being charged as an adult depends on several factors. Age is one, but more is based on the severity of the crime. A 12-year-old who acts with particular vulgarity in the act they commit could not receive "justice" in the juvenile court system because of the limits placed on what punishments can be handed out. As most all juvenile convictions "disappear" when the kid hits 18, some crimes just can't be addressed in that system.



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01 Dec 2014, 9:11 pm

Teenagers use hammers to kill a man by stricking him on the head, face, mouth, and abdomen. They first attacked his car, and when he got out then they attacked him.

Apparently four teens involved, one is sixteen, one is fifteen , one is seventeen. Three are caught, and one is sought.

One of the kids has been charged with first-degree murder and armed criminal action.

I say lock them up for life, so try them as adults. I have trouble imagining how the brain will change much. If someone is so savage as this, I don't see the brain changing much in a few years.

http://www.missourinet.com/2014/12/01/f ... community/



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01 Dec 2014, 9:21 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
I say lock them up for life, so try them as adults. I have trouble imagining how the brain will change much. If someone is so savage as this, I don't see the brain changing much in a few years.
http://www.missourinet.com/2014/12/01/f ... community/

once they reach this point it seems to me they are beyond the pale, at a point where all we know how to do is to warehouse them for their safety and ours.