Conservatives insist the rest of us live by their rules

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AspieUtah
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28 Jun 2015, 2:20 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
...that's like saying because you don't want or need social security, you shouldn't have to participate in it. The fact is, both the ACA and social security only work when everyone participates. After all, plenty of us want it need Obamacare, and it seems to me that your choice would deny it to us.

Private insurance had for decades been able to balance the costs and benefits of gender-specific medical care without forcing all policyholders to accept unnecessary coverage. So, now that Obamacare has taken over, it can't accommodate similarly? Are those who manage Obamacare so flummoxed by the idea that had worked for decades unable to accomplish what the private companies did without blinking? Apparently, yes.


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pcuser
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28 Jun 2015, 2:24 pm

sly279 wrote:
pcuser wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
I neither need nor want abortion coverage in Obamacare, but I am forced to accept it. Isn't that insisting that I live by the rules (and morals) created by Democrats (remember, not one congressional Republican voted for Obamacare)?

I don't need female reproductive health care, but I pay for it for those who do. That's how insurance is supposed to work. I don't begrudge paying for it as some of what you pay for goes to my prostate health, for instance. Just because you don't like something which is a legal right doesn't mean you can pick and choose where your money goes. The only thing you or I should care about is that most of that money goes for health care. Also, liberals tend to want laws allowing freedom, whereas conservatives tend to want to restrict rights to others. They also want to force others to live by their rules. Liberals don't care whether you are in a straight or gay marriage. They only insist that their rights are protected as your straight marriages carry those rights and benefits. You need to think about how these issues play out in the real world, not a book of fairy tales...


as long as its the freedoms they like. they trash other freedoms which they seem as wrong or not impromtant to them.
both sides only care about THEIR freedoms and not others. which side you choose depends on what freedoms you enjoy and don't want to lose. how sad is that. why can't all freedoms just be protected?

Exactly what freedoms are the left trying to deny conservatives besides the freedom to illegally discriminate against other's freedoms???



pcuser
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28 Jun 2015, 2:29 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
...that's like saying because you don't want or need social security, you shouldn't have to participate in it. The fact is, both the ACA and social security only work when everyone participates. After all, plenty of us want it need Obamacare, and it seems to me that your choice would deny it to us.

Private insurance had for decades been able to balance the costs and benefits of gender-specific medical care without forcing all policyholders to accept unnecessary coverage. So, now that Obamacare has taken over, it can't accommodate similarly? Are those who manage Obamacare so flummoxed by the idea that had worked for decades unable to accomplish what the private companies did without blinking? Apparently, yes.

Consider how well your idea of our system worked. We as a country, per capita, spent twice as much on medical care than any other industrialized country and our outcomes were at the bottom of those countries spending far less than we did. Is that the system you want to defend. You need to understand how insurance works (or should work).



sly279
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28 Jun 2015, 2:48 pm

pcuser wrote:
sly279 wrote:
pcuser wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
I neither need nor want abortion coverage in Obamacare, but I am forced to accept it. Isn't that insisting that I live by the rules (and morals) created by Democrats (remember, not one congressional Republican voted for Obamacare)?

I don't need female reproductive health care, but I pay for it for those who do. That's how insurance is supposed to work. I don't begrudge paying for it as some of what you pay for goes to my prostate health, for instance. Just because you don't like something which is a legal right doesn't mean you can pick and choose where your money goes. The only thing you or I should care about is that most of that money goes for health care. Also, liberals tend to want laws allowing freedom, whereas conservatives tend to want to restrict rights to others. They also want to force others to live by their rules. Liberals don't care whether you are in a straight or gay marriage. They only insist that their rights are protected as your straight marriages carry those rights and benefits. You need to think about how these issues play out in the real world, not a book of fairy tales...


as long as its the freedoms they like. they trash other freedoms which they seem as wrong or not impromtant to them.
both sides only care about THEIR freedoms and not others. which side you choose depends on what freedoms you enjoy and don't want to lose. how sad is that. why can't all freedoms just be protected?

Exactly what freedoms are the left trying to deny conservatives besides the freedom to illegally discriminate against other's freedoms???


lets see right to bear arms, right to privacy, right to of religion, right of your property(laws that say what you can and can't do with your own house), right to not have police come in your home without a warrant,
freedom of your money, here they keep adding more and more taxes, they'll taxing us for saving the environment now, like really they the ones who pushed the whole hybrid/electric car to save the world now they upset that means no money so they going tax us for millage. but wait I drive a gas car so no I get gas tax and millage tax and they want to double the registration tax yay. liberals love taxing people.

also the right not paying for abortions is hardly the war on women they want to make women slaves and keep them in the kitchen. not paying for something isn't the same as banning it.

so tired of the left playing the victim while attacking others who think and do things differently then them.

you're blind to your sides attacks. I'm in the middle I see both sides for the evil they are.



AspieUtah
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28 Jun 2015, 2:55 pm

pcuser wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
...that's like saying because you don't want or need social security, you shouldn't have to participate in it. The fact is, both the ACA and social security only work when everyone participates. After all, plenty of us want it need Obamacare, and it seems to me that your choice would deny it to us.

Private insurance had for decades been able to balance the costs and benefits of gender-specific medical care without forcing all policyholders to accept unnecessary coverage. So, now that Obamacare has taken over, it can't accommodate similarly? Are those who manage Obamacare so flummoxed by the idea that had worked for decades unable to accomplish what the private companies did without blinking? Apparently, yes.

Consider how well your idea of our system worked. We as a country, per capita, spent twice as much on medical care than any other industrialized country and our outcomes were at the bottom of those countries spending far less than we did. Is that the system you want to defend. You need to understand how insurance works (or should work).

And, now that Obamacare has double (and in some communities, tripled) insurance premium prices, I look fondly on the prices of private insurance from the last 100 years.


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28 Jun 2015, 2:57 pm

sly279 wrote:
also the right not paying for abortions is hardly the war on women they want to make women slaves and keep them in the kitchen. not paying for something isn't the same as banning it.


Who is the "they" in this sentence?



pcuser
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28 Jun 2015, 3:22 pm

sly279 wrote:
pcuser wrote:
sly279 wrote:
pcuser wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
I neither need nor want abortion coverage in Obamacare, but I am forced to accept it. Isn't that insisting that I live by the rules (and morals) created by Democrats (remember, not one congressional Republican voted for Obamacare)?

I don't need female reproductive health care, but I pay for it for those who do. That's how insurance is supposed to work. I don't begrudge paying for it as some of what you pay for goes to my prostate health, for instance. Just because you don't like something which is a legal right doesn't mean you can pick and choose where your money goes. The only thing you or I should care about is that most of that money goes for health care. Also, liberals tend to want laws allowing freedom, whereas conservatives tend to want to restrict rights to others. They also want to force others to live by their rules. Liberals don't care whether you are in a straight or gay marriage. They only insist that their rights are protected as your straight marriages carry those rights and benefits. You need to think about how these issues play out in the real world, not a book of fairy tales...


as long as its the freedoms they like. they trash other freedoms which they seem as wrong or not impromtant to them.
both sides only care about THEIR freedoms and not others. which side you choose depends on what freedoms you enjoy and don't want to lose. how sad is that. why can't all freedoms just be protected?

Exactly what freedoms are the left trying to deny conservatives besides the freedom to illegally discriminate against other's freedoms???


lets see right to bear arms, right to privacy, right to of religion, right of your property(laws that say what you can and can't do with your own house), right to not have police come in your home without a warrant,
freedom of your money, here they keep adding more and more taxes, they'll taxing us for saving the environment now, like really they the ones who pushed the whole hybrid/electric car to save the world now they upset that means no money so they going tax us for millage. but wait I drive a gas car so no I get gas tax and millage tax and they want to double the registration tax yay. liberals love taxing people.

also the right not paying for abortions is hardly the war on women they want to make women slaves and keep them in the kitchen. not paying for something isn't the same as banning it.

so tired of the left playing the victim while attacking others who think and do things differently then them.

you're blind to your sides attacks. I'm in the middle I see both sides for the evil they are.

When you figure out how to write in clear sentences that make sense, I'll consider replying to you...



pcuser
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28 Jun 2015, 3:26 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
pcuser wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
...that's like saying because you don't want or need social security, you shouldn't have to participate in it. The fact is, both the ACA and social security only work when everyone participates. After all, plenty of us want it need Obamacare, and it seems to me that your choice would deny it to us.

Private insurance had for decades been able to balance the costs and benefits of gender-specific medical care without forcing all policyholders to accept unnecessary coverage. So, now that Obamacare has taken over, it can't accommodate similarly? Are those who manage Obamacare so flummoxed by the idea that had worked for decades unable to accomplish what the private companies did without blinking? Apparently, yes.

Consider how well your idea of our system worked. We as a country, per capita, spent twice as much on medical care than any other industrialized country and our outcomes were at the bottom of those countries spending far less than we did. Is that the system you want to defend. You need to understand how insurance works (or should work).

And, now that Obamacare has double (and in some communities, tripled) insurance premium prices, I look fondly on the prices of private insurance from the last 100 years.

Making unsubstantiated statements make it useless to reply. As the statistics suggest the cost of medical care is growing much slower than before. And since the Republicans only obstructed, we have an imperfect law. Since they won't consider anything but repealing it in full, it's the best we have for now. Still, the costs are slowing...



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28 Jun 2015, 3:29 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
...that's like saying because you don't want or need social security, you shouldn't have to participate in it. The fact is, both the ACA and social security only work when everyone participates. After all, plenty of us want it need Obamacare, and it seems to me that your choice would deny it to us.

Private insurance had for decades been able to balance the costs and benefits of gender-specific medical care without forcing all policyholders to accept unnecessary coverage. So, now that Obamacare has taken over, it can't accommodate similarly? Are those who manage Obamacare so flummoxed by the idea that had worked for decades unable to accomplish what the private companies did without blinking? Apparently, yes.


As I'm hardly an expert on how insurance is supposed to work, I'll let pcuser do battle with you over this point.


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28 Jun 2015, 3:30 pm

blauSamstag wrote:
sly279 wrote:
also the right not paying for abortions is hardly the war on women they want to make women slaves and keep them in the kitchen. not paying for something isn't the same as banning it.
Who is the "they" in this sentence?
Conservatives, obviously.

It's common for Christian Conservatives to compare the relationship between humanity and God to that between husband and wife. God is the "man" of the house to whom humanity owes obedience, respect, and honor. Usually this relationship is portrayed as one of love; but in far too many ways, the Christian Conservative god is more like an abusive spouse who only knows how to love through intimidation and violence.

For the Conservative Christian, theirs is a god of violence, intimidation, and punitive acts. He is an elderly, bearded white male obsessed with our sexuality, while ready to smite anyone who does not behave in a strictly moral manner -- a manner best interpreted by elderly white male humans who fear the destruction of Civilization As We Know it if a penis should ever be located in anything other than a vagina, a pair of trousers, or its owner's fist.



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28 Jun 2015, 3:32 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
And, now that Obamacare has double (and in some communities, tripled) insurance premium prices, I look fondly on the prices of private insurance from the last 100 years.


Can you substantiate this claim?



AspieUtah
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28 Jun 2015, 3:34 pm

pcuser wrote:
...As the statistics suggest the cost of medical care is growing much slower than before. And since the Republicans only obstructed, we have an imperfect law. Since they won't consider anything but repealing it in full, it's the best we have for now. Still, the costs are slowing...

TheHill.com wrote:
..."It's pretty shortsighted because I think everybody knows that the way the exchange has rolled out … is going to lead to higher costs," said one senior insurance executive who requested anonymity.

The insurance official, who hails from a populous swing state, said his company expects to triple its rates next year on the ObamaCare exchange.

The hikes are expected to vary substantially by region, state and carrier.

Areas of the country with older, sicker or smaller populations are likely to be hit hardest, while others might not see substantial increases at all...."

TheHill.com: "O-Care premiums to skyrocket " (March 19, 2014)
http://www.thehill.com/policy/healthcar ... -skyrocket


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28 Jun 2015, 3:48 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
pcuser wrote:
...As the statistics suggest the cost of medical care is growing much slower than before. And since the Republicans only obstructed, we have an imperfect law. Since they won't consider anything but repealing it in full, it's the best we have for now. Still, the costs are slowing...

TheHill.com wrote:
..."It's pretty shortsighted because I think everybody knows that the way the exchange has rolled out … is going to lead to higher costs," said one senior insurance executive who requested anonymity.

The insurance official, who hails from a populous swing state, said his company expects to triple its rates next year on the ObamaCare exchange.

The hikes are expected to vary substantially by region, state and carrier.

Areas of the country with older, sicker or smaller populations are likely to be hit hardest, while others might not see substantial increases at all...."

TheHill.com: "O-Care premiums to skyrocket " (March 19, 2014)
http://www.thehill.com/policy/healthcar ... -skyrocket



Those are predictions.

I can predict anything.



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28 Jun 2015, 4:12 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
"Liberals" literally just unconstitutionally legally forced their beliefs on same-sex marriages on the rest of America.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in favour of same-sex marriage - but let's not pretend it's only conservatives who do this.

Genuine liberals could argue that they advocate freedom, and forcing freedom upon people isn't force at all. Liberals aren't going to stop heterosexual people living as they want, they're just going to enable homosexuals to have the same legal recognition that heterosexuals have enjoyed since governments started recognising marriages. That's a good thing, but the way it was achieved isn't how America is supposed to work.

American conservatives only seem particularly concerned about rights in two of the situations which distinguish them from American leftists. Those are guns and taxes.

The impression I get from the internet is that American conservatives are a dying breed and increasingly those who identify as such actually have pretty liberal views on many issues, including crime. That doesn't seem to be reflected in their political representatives - I've not seen a presidential candidate with libertarian views on drugs, equality, and immigration. Hopefully soon such a candidate will emerge and be electable.

(Some of these issues are by no means exclusive to America, I just added that qualifier because it seemed the OP was exclusively talking about American politics)


Lol how have the liberals forced their beliefs on same sex marrige on anyone, and are you certain its only liberals who support the idea of same sex marriage being legal? But seriously no one is forcing anyone who does not wish to, to enter into a same sex marrige and/or union just making it so those who do wish to do so are allowed...how does that force anything on anyone? Now having it illegal, based on religious morality thus denying same sex couples the ability to make it official sounds a lot more like legislated morality than simply allowing it. Do you have an example of a freedom or right that liberals are trying to deny people...what freedom or right is denied to you with same sex marriage being legal? Though you're not the first to use that flawed argument about same sex marriage...trouble is it doesn't take anyone's rights away.

I suppose legalizing marijuana in colorado is also liberals somehow forcing their beliefs on everyone....when all it does is stop it from being a criminal act, people are still free to not smoke or otherwise consume it. And hell why'd they free the slaves those anti-slavery people forcing their anti-slave views unjustly? I mean how exactly is the legalization of same sex marrige 'not how america is supposed to work'.


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28 Jun 2015, 4:23 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
I neither need nor want abortion coverage in Obamacare, but I am forced to accept it. Isn't that insisting that I live by the rules (and morals) created by Democrats (remember, not one congressional Republican voted for Obamacare)?


Well not really no one is saying its a rule you have to get an abortion...just that if you so chose it would be covered, of course if you're paying extra for that coverage and don't want it then I could more see complaining about it. Either way though Democrats and Liberals are not the same thing, per say...though there are liberal democrats not sure how they call themselves that though because they are almost as bad as the overly religious conservative republicans with their legislation of morality..and like to perpetuate negative sterotypes about groups who don't quite fall in line with 'normal' they are kind of creepy.


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28 Jun 2015, 4:29 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
"Liberals" literally just unconstitutionally legally forced their beliefs on same-sex marriages on the rest of America.


Have you never heard of the 14th Amendment? It has nothing to do with beliefs. It's about discrimination, which is unconstitutional.

You're not forced to do anything. Before this ruling, I wasn't legally allowed to get married. Now, I can (assuming I can find someone). You're rights didn't change at all. I really don't understand why anyone would have any reason to complain about this.

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That doesn't seem to be reflected in their political representatives - I've not seen a presidential candidate with libertarian views on drugs, equality, and immigration. Hopefully soon such a candidate will emerge and be electable.


There is one: Bernie Sanders.


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