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Boston Kimono Exhbit removed over racism.

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adifferentname
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16 Jul 2015, 6:36 pm

androbot01 wrote:
I guess the kimono had no historical value as people trying it on would add unnecessary wear and tear. I went to an exhibit of historical costume and we couldn't even touch them.
This reminds me of the Halloween costume controversy - kids dressing as native peoples and such.
I can kinda see how having gallery viewers try on historical replicas could be offensive. Like appropriating someone else's culture.


In that case, you had better stop wearing T-shirts with Union Jacks or Che Guevara on them - that's cultural appropriation. Also, if you weren't born in Ireland, stop celebrating St. Patrick's day and drinking Guinness. While you're at it, best find a non-democratic system of government - democracy is appropriation of Greek culture. Or we can stop kowtowing to people who believe their sensibilities should dictate what is and is not appropriate (or, indeed, appropriation).

Cultural intermingling is a natural and necessary component in a multi-ethnic melting pot like the US. We should be embracing each others ideas, forms of expression and collective identities, not enforcing cultural segregation.



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16 Jul 2015, 6:56 pm

adifferentname wrote:
In that case, you had better stop wearing T-shirts with Union Jacks or Che Guevara on them

I assure you I have never worn the Union Jack or an image of Che Guevera
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that's cultural appropriation. Also, if you weren't born in Ireland, stop celebrating St. Patrick's day and drinking Guinness.

I've always thought the celebration of St. Patrick's day was silly.
Quote:
While you're at it, best find a non-democratic system of government - democracy is appropriation of Greek culture. Or we can stop kowtowing to people who believe their sensibilities should dictate what is and is not appropriate (or, indeed, appropriation).

I think democracy's spread from Greece was a natural evolution. Not akin to costuming oneself in a historical garment.

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Cultural intermingling is a natural and necessary component in a multi-ethnic melting pot like the US. We should be embracing each others ideas, forms of expression and collective identities, not enforcing cultural segregation.

True. I agree. But this is not a case of me wearing an NBA jersey when I can't even dribble. This kimono was being presented as a historical replica and should be treated with respect.



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16 Jul 2015, 7:24 pm

androbot01 wrote:
I assure you I have never worn the Union Jack or an image of Che Guevera


I'm quite certain that you understood the point being made. If not, let me know and I'll happily provide an explanation.

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I've always thought the celebration of St. Patrick's day was silly.


Being silly for the sake of being silly is a customary component of most celebratory events. I've always thought that Victoria Day was a rather spurious excuse for a long weekend, but I doubt you hear many complaints.

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I think democracy's spread from Greece was a natural evolution.


Precisely. Culture is a set of ideas, beliefs and principles that are common to a group of people. It's natural for those ideas to spread to other cultures in the form of garments, rituals and practices as different cultures rub up against each other. Democratic philosophies spread from Ancient Greece in much the same manner as its mythos and products.

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Not akin to costuming oneself in a historical garment.


It is exactly the same.

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True. I agree. But this is not a case of me wearing an NBA jersey when I can't even dribble. This kimono was being presented as a historical replica and should be treated with respect.


In what way was the cheap, inanimate copy of a historical kimono being 'disrespected'? Why should it be "treated with respect"? How do you define "respect"? When your definition of "respect" is at odds with my right to free expression, which one must yield?



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16 Jul 2015, 7:32 pm

adifferentname wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
I assure you I have never worn the Union Jack or an image of Che Guevera


I'm quite certain that you understood the point being made. If not, let me know and I'll happily provide an explanation.

No worries, I got it. My point is that I don't wear these things because I have no business doing so.
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In what way was the cheap, inanimate copy of a historical kimono being 'disrespected'? Why should it be "treated with respect"? How do you define "respect"? When your definition of "respect" is at odds with my right to free expression, which one must yield?

Well, if a designer incorporated historic Japanese styles into modern fashions, that would be okay. But taking a replica and wearing it as costume is vain and gratuitous. However, you have every right to do it, just as I do to comment.



adifferentname
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17 Jul 2015, 1:57 am

androbot01 wrote:
No worries, I got it. My point is that I don't wear these things because I have no business doing so.


And my point is that you probably wouldn't be accused of "appropriation" if you did.

Quote:
Quote:
In what way was the cheap, inanimate copy of a historical kimono being 'disrespected'? Why should it be "treated with respect"? How do you define "respect"? When your definition of "respect" is at odds with my right to free expression, which one must yield?

Well, if a designer incorporated historic Japanese styles into modern fashions, that would be okay. But taking a replica and wearing it as costume is vain and gratuitous. However, you have every right to do it, just as I do to comment.


That didn't answer any of my questions. I reject the notion that something is disrespectful simply because you deem it so. Further, I now require an explanation as to why you believe it is "vain and gratuitous" to dress up in a replica garment.



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17 Jul 2015, 9:30 am

adifferentname wrote:
Quote:
Well, if a designer incorporated historic Japanese styles into modern fashions, that would be okay. But taking a replica and wearing it as costume is vain and gratuitous. However, you have every right to do it, just as I do to comment.


That didn't answer any of my questions. I reject the notion that something is disrespectful simply because you deem it so. Further, I now require an explanation as to why you believe it is "vain and gratuitous" to dress up in a replica garment.

I already gave it. Are you able to give a counter argument?



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17 Jul 2015, 11:16 am

There is no such thing as cultural appropriation, you don't own culture and you're not entitled to be able to segregate yourself and your culture. If you think kimonos are racist then I hope you're not using a computer, wearing jeans, eat cheeseburgers, or celebrate Thanksgiving. How is right to segregate yourself then invade our culture?



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17 Jul 2015, 11:29 am

Jacoby wrote:
There is no such thing as cultural appropriation, you don't own culture and you're not entitled to be able to segregate yourself and your culture. If you think kimonos are racist then I hope you're not using a computer, wearing jeans, eat cheeseburgers, or celebrate Thanksgiving. How is right to segregate yourself then invade our culture?
there's a difference between cultural appropriation and turning cultural art into a sideshow, the latter is what the museum did.



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17 Jul 2015, 11:38 am

Fugu wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
There is no such thing as cultural appropriation, you don't own culture and you're not entitled to be able to segregate yourself and your culture. If you think kimonos are racist then I hope you're not using a computer, wearing jeans, eat cheeseburgers, or celebrate Thanksgiving. How is right to segregate yourself then invade our culture?
there's a difference between cultural appropriation and turning cultural art into a sideshow, the latter is what the museum did.


How? By encouraging people to pose in similar outfit as the one in a world famous panting? No, that is no racist or offensive in any way.

I think a new rule should be that white people are not allowed any more to get offended on minority's behalf, you're literally appropriating their outrage. Think about it.



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17 Jul 2015, 11:43 am

Jacoby wrote:
Fugu wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
There is no such thing as cultural appropriation, you don't own culture and you're not entitled to be able to segregate yourself and your culture. If you think kimonos are racist then I hope you're not using a computer, wearing jeans, eat cheeseburgers, or celebrate Thanksgiving. How is right to segregate yourself then invade our culture?
there's a difference between cultural appropriation and turning cultural art into a sideshow, the latter is what the museum did.


How? By encouraging people to pose in similar outfit as the one in a world famous panting? No, that is no racist or offensive in any way.

I think a new rule should be that white people are not allowed any more to get offended on minority's behalf, you're literally appropriating their outrage. Think about it.
that's a pretty stupid rule honestly, equality doesn't exist for just one group of people. also, I thought conservatives were all about conserving culture, not mocking it.



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17 Jul 2015, 11:50 am

Fugu wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Fugu wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
There is no such thing as cultural appropriation, you don't own culture and you're not entitled to be able to segregate yourself and your culture. If you think kimonos are racist then I hope you're not using a computer, wearing jeans, eat cheeseburgers, or celebrate Thanksgiving. How is right to segregate yourself then invade our culture?
there's a difference between cultural appropriation and turning cultural art into a sideshow, the latter is what the museum did.


How? By encouraging people to pose in similar outfit as the one in a world famous panting? No, that is no racist or offensive in any way.

I think a new rule should be that white people are not allowed any more to get offended on minority's behalf, you're literally appropriating their outrage. Think about it.
that's a pretty stupid rule honestly, equality doesn't exist for just one group of people. also, I thought conservatives were all about conserving culture, not mocking it.



Well you are wrong to assume I am a conservative, I do not live by labels like that. Culture is evolving and always changing, we don't own it and we can't control what others do with it. You can't be separate but equal, it doesn't work that way as history showed us which is how see this cultural appropriation crap being the modern equivalent to. Equality means if you are allowed to partake in my culture then I can do the same to yours, this is a free country still at least for the time being. It seems like a lot of people who preach equality are really attached to concept of race and cultural division much in the same racists are.



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17 Jul 2015, 11:55 am

Jacoby wrote:
Well you are wrong to assume I am a conservative, I do not live by labels like that. Culture is evolving and always changing, we don't own it and we can't control what others do with it. You can't be separate but equal, it doesn't work that way as history showed us which is how see this cultural appropriation crap being the modern equivalent to. Equality means if you are allowed to partake in my culture then I can do the same to yours, this is a free country still at least for the time being. It seems like a lot of people who preach equality are really attached to concept of race and cultural division much in the same racists are.
there's a difference between participating in culture and cynically using it to drive commerce.



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17 Jul 2015, 12:08 pm

Fugu wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Well you are wrong to assume I am a conservative, I do not live by labels like that. Culture is evolving and always changing, we don't own it and we can't control what others do with it. You can't be separate but equal, it doesn't work that way as history showed us which is how see this cultural appropriation crap being the modern equivalent to. Equality means if you are allowed to partake in my culture then I can do the same to yours, this is a free country still at least for the time being. It seems like a lot of people who preach equality are really attached to concept of race and cultural division much in the same racists are.
there's a difference between participating in culture and cynically using it to drive commerce.


An art museum is not culture? What is wrong about using culture to drive commerce anyway? Do you eat ethnic food? Kimonos have travelled all over the world, the Japanese cannot claim sole ownership and control of it any more. I has been incoprorated into modern fashion, is that appropriation? It was a Frenchman who made the painting btw.



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17 Jul 2015, 12:11 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Fugu wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Well you are wrong to assume I am a conservative, I do not live by labels like that. Culture is evolving and always changing, we don't own it and we can't control what others do with it. You can't be separate but equal, it doesn't work that way as history showed us which is how see this cultural appropriation crap being the modern equivalent to. Equality means if you are allowed to partake in my culture then I can do the same to yours, this is a free country still at least for the time being. It seems like a lot of people who preach equality are really attached to concept of race and cultural division much in the same racists are.
there's a difference between participating in culture and cynically using it to drive commerce.


An art museum is not culture? What is wrong about using culture to drive commerce anyway? Do you eat ethnic food? Kimonos have travelled all over the world, the Japanese cannot claim sole ownership and control of it any more. I has been incoprorated into modern fashion, is that appropriation? It was a Frenchman who made the painting btw.
an art museum is culture, people standing around wearing kimonos to drive attendance is not.



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17 Jul 2015, 12:16 pm

Fugu wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Fugu wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Well you are wrong to assume I am a conservative, I do not live by labels like that. Culture is evolving and always changing, we don't own it and we can't control what others do with it. You can't be separate but equal, it doesn't work that way as history showed us which is how see this cultural appropriation crap being the modern equivalent to. Equality means if you are allowed to partake in my culture then I can do the same to yours, this is a free country still at least for the time being. It seems like a lot of people who preach equality are really attached to concept of race and cultural division much in the same racists are.
there's a difference between participating in culture and cynically using it to drive commerce.


An art museum is not culture? What is wrong about using culture to drive commerce anyway? Do you eat ethnic food? Kimonos have travelled all over the world, the Japanese cannot claim sole ownership and control of it any more. I has been incoprorated into modern fashion, is that appropriation? It was a Frenchman who made the painting btw.
an art museum is culture, people standing around wearing kimonos to drive attendance is not.


Why does it bother you? You do realize that Claude Monet wasn't painting a Japanese woman right? Do you think the painting should be removed and destroyed because it pictures a WHITE woman in a Japanese kimono? If an art museum can't attract visitors it isn't going to be open very long.



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17 Jul 2015, 12:28 pm

...The whole " appropriation " thing ?

ote="xenocity"]

Quote:
Following an uproar of criticism on social media, the Boston Museum of Fine Arts (MFA) cancelled an event that protesters labelled racist and culturally insensitive.

Museum officials announced that they would cancel "Kimono Wednesdays," which was originally scheduled to run until 29 July.

Every week, visitors were encouraged to "channel your inner Camille Monet" by posing in front of Claude Monet's "La Japonaise" while trying on a replica of the kimono Monet's wife, Camille, wears in the painting.

Protesters quickly labelled this event as racist, saying it propagated racial stereotypes and encouraged cultural appropriation.

Some stood with signs next to visitors who tried on the kimono.

"It's not racist if you looks cute & exotic in it besides the MFA supports this!" one sign read...
Image

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-33450391
[/quote]