Murder rates drop as concealed carry permits soar: report

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I vote for both; a little of this, a little of that.

Some of the CCP statistics in that report are misleading because they are only for permits to carry out of state. We can assume a lot of people packing in the states where no permit is required to carry in state.

And with all the rabid Republican rhetoric in this state and TX, I am positively shocked a permit is required.

correlation does not mean causation.

Then, what caused U.S. murders to decrease by 25 percent?

could be many things: the improving economy, for one.

you're the one making the claim, you should ask yourself why that is(likely it won't be easily found)

it doesn't help that the NRA doesn't want the government to research gun violence: http://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-nra-kills-gun-violence-research-2013-1

The NRA doesn't want such a study performed when previous studies have been cherry picked to support more federal firearm restrictions. Most notably, the CDC has tortured firearm-death statistics until they aren't recognizable. Kinda like when the Reagan administration forbade fair research (if any at all) of the then-ignored HIV/AIDS epidemic.

or so the NRA has told you. couldn't be that facts don't support all the things that make gun manufacturers happy.

While Alabama boasts more Concealed Carriers than any other state and a steady decrease in overall crime, the city of Mobile has a homicide rate 30% higher than the rest of the state:

http://www.al.com/news/mobile/index.ssf ... lings.html

Britain is smaller, and most of our crime is one demographic. New Orleans has 400 murders most years, with less than five being White.

We have limited concealed carry. No permit needed to have a gun in your home, or auto, or at work. Anywhere else takes a permit.

Obama made a few comments about limiting firearms, and sold a hundred million guns. Bans on Assault weapons, more recently Sanctions on Russian arms, our several million AK-47s doubled in value.

Many years ago both Remington and Winchester ran ads saying the largest army on earth was armed with their scoped deer rifles. Each had sold five million.

During WWII, Japan said invading the US was impossible, because there would be a citizen with a rifle behind every blade of grass.

Our Constitution says The People have a Right to Assemble, and a Right to Bear Arms. It is our chosen form of Government. We have over a hundred million who are prepared to defend those Rights.

The people most like us are the Swiss, well armed, the defense of the Nation is on the Citizens, and if only White people are counted, a very low crime rate.

It is a vast country, in the west it is often twenty-five to fifty miles of nothing between small towns. It can be very hot, cold, dark, and you are on your own. It is common to drive a half hour without seeing another vehicle. We wave.

The concept of Militia means more than arms. When I lived in New Mexico, less than one person per square mile, I had a van with a bed in it. The locals said that is the closest thing to an ambulance around, keep it full of gas and leave the keys in it. It was fifty four miles to the nearest hospital. They were all the people within forty miles. If someone breaks down out on the road, the first vehicle to come along will stop.

When we had a shooter on a University tower in Texas, the police had hand guns. A half dozen men pulled deer rifles out of their vehicles, made him quit shooting and keep his head down till the police could advance, climb the stairs, and shoot him. The Posse, armed citizens supporting the Law, driving Poncho Villa back into Mexico, or stopping a Japanese invasion on the beach, is the same as the English Hue and Cry, where all men search the countryside following a crime.

When we have a disaster the first to come to the rescue are your neighbors. We have a culture of mutual support, and in rural areas everyone answers the fire alarm.

The Old America is still around, still willing to defend their neighbors, and still a very well armed majority.

We have not been invaded recently, but at The Battle of New Orleans, the best of the British Army was stopped by Civilians with their personal weapons. We outnumber our own standing military and Police by about a hundred to one. Most of them are us. Government should fear the loss of Consent of the Governed.

We have some say 600 million guns, and really low gun crime. Almost all is Black and Latino. 10% of the people do 95% of the crime.

As for all the recent gun buyers, mostly it is Liberals waking up to Reality.

Now, who's being a conspiracy theorist?!?

I amn't an NRA member or cheerleader. It is bloated and does much wrong as I have said elsewhere on WrongPlant.net, but it has learned its lesson that, when others ask it do help out in certain ways (U.S. Supreme Court cases, and membership or professional opinions about restrictive laws), it generally does so, now. Years ago, it refused to join and watched flatfooted while the Second Amendment Foundation (SAF) pursued the landmark cases of District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), and McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 742 (2010), to Court victories. The NRA got a face full of egg for that one. Besides, there are many, many Second Amendment groups in the United States. SAF is just one which currently appears to have more "umph" behind it that the NRA does.

I am not disputing people have the right to conceal/open carry - just that it causes the murder rates to decrease. You would need to go city-by-city and do conducive studies to be certain. As you can see, some of these cities have high murder rates and many concealed carriers walking around.

Look at two Northwest cities, for instance, Seattle and Portland. In Seattle, Concealed Carry is a big deal, they had 26 murders in 2014 which is a number many large, and smaller cities envy and would like to aim for.

http://www.seattle.gov/police/crime/stats.htm

Now look at Portland, Oregon. I am not sure about last year but in 2014 Portland had a mere 14 murders in the entire city. I mean, can you imagine? A pretty good sized city with only 14 murders???? That is an example of a safe city! It's not so much a CC city as Seattle and Washington state.

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Po ... regon.html

Both these cities have exceptionally low murder rates.


*actually that link for Portland is for everyone 100,000 persons but I found another link and there were actually 16 murders in 2013 which is still a great statistic even though zero would be best but it's better than what it could have been.

Unfortunately, last year was much worse for Portland. For some reason, the homicide rate rose to 26, closer to what Seattle had.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/inde ... er_of.html

It's true, for some reason murder plagues this part of the country - look at the Dallas statistic for last year and this is actually a low year for Dallas -

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/he ... ce-say.ece

Texas is a borderline Concealed Carry with not two high a permit rate considering it's the second most populous in the country. Still you got a lot of gun enthusiasts in North Texas so there could be quite a bit concealed carry in the cities Dallas/Ft Worth. Not even sure if that high statistic included Ft Worth though.

Now let's look at this statistic which is off the charts - Los Angeles, CA, a place that is very low Concealed Carry - 578 homicides in just 12 months. One of the worst in the country, probably.

http://homicide.latimes.com/

And now let's go to Miami, with Florida being the most Concealed Carry gun ownership - 212 homicides Dade county 2014 which is lower than Los Angeles but not really low as in Seattle or Portland.

https://www.fdle.state.fl.us/Content/FS ... ade14.aspx

Interesting statistic for NYC homicides - it's up by 20% over last year - 54 total so far while OKC is somewhere around 41. NYC is low Concealed Carriers while OKC is a little above average but not high. NYC has a heck of a lot more people than OKC though and looks, the rates of homicide are not that different.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc ... -1.2134509

why are you defending them and citing them as a source then?

I'm all for it. I also remember that India was seriously looking at it when a string of rapes hit a couple years back (it was well publicized) - having the 2nd largest country in the world go in this direction wouldn't be a bad thing at all.

As far as the UK, I've heard people comment that it's size and it's being an island (technically several) means that it has a bit of an upper-hand it making something like gun control work whereas having porous borders, thousands and thousands of miles of coast line, I don't know if we're situated to do much of anything quite the same way and get similar results.

More people with guns = gun crime carries a higher risk

That is true and compare crime statistics between countries is fought with problems.

However I just don't think it purely down to size. UK aslo has a high population density which should be an issue.

As stated before guns are a bit of a red herring with regard to overall crime. Social deprivation, cultures of crime and corruption are far bigger factors. Where you do have high crime you really do have a serious issue. Where I agree with you is that you high crime areas do taint the area with very low crime indeed. Being more population dense we have less of these, but still cities tend to dominate.

Having lived in some of the most violent place on earth like South Africa, Angola, Brazil, Jamaica it it obvious that UK violent crime just isn't on the same level as it in the US for whatever reason.

Your GDP is comparable with Lichtenstein and Luxembourg, but your wealth disparity is quite high. It is quite high in have UK too, however it hasn't impacted crime to the same level as the US (but has impacted it for sure).