The 2016 Republican Field

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You'd be surprised, the establishment has been trying to shove immigration down the base's mouth for years and is overwhelmingly rejected every time it tries. Immigration was why Eric Cantor, the likely future Speaker of the House at the time, lost in the primary to a complete unknown. The vast majority of the GOP agrees with Trump's sentiments on immigration, people don't want amnesty they want us to gain control of our border and enforcement. People might see it as racially charged and I don't know how much of that there really is but there is the economics of it and the high profile crime here and in Mexico that play a roll as well. Agree or disagree with him, he represents the views of a lot of people that felt they didn't have a voice in either of the two parties, that's a base of support that might give him staying power. Common hatreds can bring people together, Trump's fans hate Trump's enemies.

Be lucky you can run for presidential candidacy/nomination at the time, normally in other countries it works on the basis of running for party leadership first, which isn't necessarily done at a general election.

However each party is going to have ways of determining a leader, some fairer than others.

If this not satisfactory then form another party, and not talking about a loose coalition of rebels, but an actual party.

My problem with Trump isn't about immigration, it is that he is a class A buffoon that is an own goal to GOP supporters.

I happen to be a trade liberal, but that is nothing to do with why I'm criticising him.

Last edited by 0_equals_true on 26 Jul 2015, 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

There corruption problem in Mexico is not going to be solved by invasion, or strong arm tactics, or talking bluster (which is basically what Trump is about).

Most of the money that drives that corruption is directly attributed to the failed war on drugs, which is making the cartel leaders so rich in the first place, and you agencies have been colluding with some of them.

It is in the US interest for Mexico to proper, that means some investment and like or not jobs.

Btw in early US history there was more party splits and formations.

Why not reform the Democratic Republican Party?

I don't think people care so much about solving Mexico's problems as much as just shielding themselves off from them, for what it is worth tho Trump at least at one time supported drug legalization and taxation as a means of raising revenue. Who knows what he believes now; he was also for abortion, gun control, and universal healthcare at one time.

August 6th is the first debate, we'll see how real this thing is once and for all.

Which is not smart. The population don't away pick the right solution. These fence policies are popular, it doesn't mean they will be successful in their objective.



The guy is all over the place, and this is not even a tactic. He even believes his own lies when he denied calling Mccain "Not a war hero".

It's not any more stupid than the neoconservatives and globalists that have controlled our foreign policy for decades, at least turning attention to Mexico could solves a real problem. The majority of the GOP voters want a fence and they want to enforce federal immigration laws, honestly it is ridiculous that sanctuary cities are allowed but states can't manage their own borders. Those aren't particularly extreme positions, its just the elite in this country is for increased third world immigration to keep wages down and this isn't just dishwashers and fieldworkers. Our tech industry is increasingly relying on H-1B slaves from India, they lay off American workers and lobby for more H-1B visas. They make pennies on the dollar and literally cannot leave their job or else they'll be deported. Immigration isn't a new positive for all Americans, it is a net positive for the monied interests on Wall Street and power hungered ideologues. It all blends together of course. It doesn't matter whether or not you agree with it either, these are the beliefs are the majority of the GOP and they've been silenced by the establishment.

I don't think Trump is trying to be taken seriously right now, he's selling himself right now but eventually he'll have to take some concrete policy decisions obviously. This debate is going to be very very interesting. I'm waiting in seeing who he is hiring as advisers, it's pretty easy to tell who is aligned with Satan by who they associate with. Having Charles Krauthammer and Bill Kristol hate you is a good start.

Is a fence even feasible? Or is it going to be a waste of money for something that won't work.

You probably will have to employ Mexicans to build it.

It's totally feasible, certainly more so than occupying the entire Middle East. it's just how effective it will be and the dollar amount attached to it that is the question but the fact is that it is something the majority of the country supports. Personally I think there are better things to spend our money on but if the federal government won't do it then states would, you know Arizona would so if that's what people want then that's what they want. Drone surveillance over known trafficking corridors could be expanded, better there than bombing kids in Pakistan. Ron Paul brought up the point that our military defends the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan but not our own with Mexico. If I had my way, I'd bring the troops home and station them along our southern border.

That's not a solution in of itself but there is a lot more to this, tackling sanctuary cities is a good idea and we need to look at these H-1Bs and other work visa programs. Immigration should serve the interests of the American people, not big business not ideologues. Both parties are advocating more immigration, it doesn't get talked about other than when we're discussing whether or not to give amnesty which the American people are overwhelmingly against. We need to get rid of birthright citizenship, your citizenship should be determined by your parents.

Something needs to be done, simple as that. Amnesty is not the answer and if given no solutions by their current leaders then they're going to look for one that can do it, remember what JFK said about those who make peaceful revolution impossible. People are looking for somebody to save them and their democracy, they see Washington as an occupying power and they want somebody to fight for them. That's why Trump is so popular, people are looking for someone strong to fight back against a perceived all-powerful enemy in Washington. They're turning to Trump because they don't have any hope in any of the other candidates.

Probably Rand Paul maybe suspicion of oversees adventures and surveillance state might gain some traction.

I don't think who wins the Republican nomination will matter as I expect a Democrat landslide all across the board, executive, legislative, governors.

1. From LBGT rights to Confederate Flag the country is moving leftward at warp speed
2. Whoever is the Republican nominee will be irreparably politically damaged and probably will have little money left for the general election.

Fox News debate is tonight

Field is Donald Trump, Scott Walker, Jeb Bush, Rand Paul, Ben Carson, Mike Huckabee, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, John Kasich, and Chris Christie. Rick Perry missed the cut and will be relegated to the 5pm debate(im guessing eastern time) with everyone that didn't make it, Rick Perry has probably been the most outspoken candidate against Trump until this point.

I'm expecting chaos, should be entertaining. We deserve our reality TV presidency.

Trump has influenced the field, lots of talk of a wall, deporting all illegals.

Trump was singled out for questions about things he has said about women and four of his companies going bankrupt. Others got questions about International Relations, Economics, Abortion.

Trump did speak about questions he was not asked, like the National Debt, pointing out he has reduced debt in bankruptcy and the national problem was the result of bad management. Others had to agree.

Trump called it like it is, Wall Street owns Congress. When the question was have you given money to the Clintons, Trump said, I gave money to all of them, including most on this stage. It is what you have to do to do anything, and it is wrong, but that is the way it is.

Republican House and Senate, and all the Candidates denounced Congress.

The whole lot were anti government.

Most are not electable, but a Republican win, they are running for Cabinet positions. Bush would make a good Sectary of State. He was the tallest. Ben Carson, Surgeon General, Carly Fiona made a good show in the junior debate, and she has a business background. Christie is Attorney General material. Several showed ability to pass laws, make deals, and get things done.

People you do not want around, but want their support, are made Ambassadors, lots of places there.

Trump deferred to wisdom and intelligence, but spoke out as the leader. We Will Make America Great Again, reflected on the whole team.

They were all running against Congress, and the management of the Republican Party. Even if they lose the election, new forces are rising in the party.

On the watershed issue of illegals, they were united, build wall, deport them all. it is what the American people want. Legal Immigration is set in stone, but a lot of people deported could be let back in, if they had no criminal record, and they could get a work visa. Some we could use as tax paying workers, but in general, the 11 to 31 million are taking jobs Americans would do. Many of those jobs were traditionally done by Blacks. Getting young Black men into trades would solve a lot of problems.

The Republicans can win if they listen to the American people.

Someone else: Harley Brown, hands down.

Well it is no secret what the intentions of Fox News and the RNC was last night, they ambushed him with every question and while some were legitimate questions others were just completely loaded. Trump looked like a fool as he was suppose to but the crowd was not happy with the relentless burying Fox was trying to do and was groaning by the end. Trump started out the night by refusing to rule out running as a third party candidate, gave some tacit support to single payer in Canada and Europe but supports a private system here at this time, made a point of saying he opposed the Iraq War, standard Republican sabrerattling with Iran and ISIS but is probably still the 2nd most dovish guy running for GOP nomination after Rand Paul which should tell you how insane these people are. I think his answer at the end when they attacked him over a few of his casinos in Atlantic City going bankrupt was strong, nobody is going to feel sorry for the "lenders" that lost money and he hit Christie over the head with the collapse of Atlantic City.

Lindsay Graham was on the early debate and literally every answer he gave on whatever subject be it abortion or Obamacare he brought it back to invading/occupying the middle east from Iran to Iraq to Syria. Pretty much only Rand Paul didn't support immediately going to war with Iran and Rand annoyed me a lot by not supporting the deal they have on the table right now given the alternatives but he's basically the only candidate not in support of sending in ground troops.

Jeb looked like a mannequin, FNC tried to set up a confrontation with him and Trump but he shied away from it. He didn't do anything to hurt himself and nobody paid any attention to him so it is a victory for Jeb. Walker gave a few sharp answers but didn't stand out. Good debate for Kasich with the home crowd in Ohio, came off as a likable compassionate guy.

Ben Carson was soft spoken but I think came off well in contrast, had a couple funny one liners and I think did pretty well all things considered for his first ever debate. Rubio was there, I thought his line asking how Hillary could lecture him about living paycheck to paycheck and about student loans to be dumb but others might of like it since FNC replayed it a few times. Christie probably did well with people who already like him, I think he's a loud mouth fascist idiot. Christie pandered hard on 9/11, he challenged Rand Paul on his opposition to NSA bulk collection and I think Rand did fine in the exchange altho I kind of wish he threw a 'fat boy' or two in there.

Rand I think did okay, didn't give any bad answers but got less than 5 minutes to speak during the entire debate. He barely had any questions directed at him, the only one he got off the top of my head was some throwaway one about gay marriage. Everything else was in response to someone else. Rand was pretty much the only person to step up against Trump which he did early on, none of the other Republicans seemed to eager.

Huckabee is always a great speaker and came off strong, he might have something to say in Iowa before it is all said and over with. Huckabee wants to utilize these Planned Parenthood videos and the recent Supreme Court decision with same-sex marriage to try to mobilize religious social conservatives behind him. Not a strategy that will win you the nomination but it definitely can win Iowa.

Trump is dominating the post debate polling, it wasn't a good debate for him so if this doesn't make a dent then I really don't know what will.

Would be interesting to see the Democrats debate, have until October I think...

They intentionally tried to derail Trump. They are doing this because they support the establishment way of doing nothing but be politically correct and allow everything to fall apart. They all are scared of him because he has so much money even the Koch machine would have problems dealing with. Normally candidates with views like this lack money and popularity and they are pushed aside like in 2012.

This debate might drive a wedge between conservatives and Fox News, Trump supporters are pissed at FNC and specifically Megyn Kelly. It was not professional the way FNC conducted itself, they are trying to select the nominee themselves and people are becoming increasingly aware and tired of it.. They tried to bury Trump and immediately declared his candidacy dead but polls are telling another story, it is stuff exactly like this that has made Trump is so popular. People are tired of a complicit corporate media and they're tired of having to choose between bought and paid for stooges who keep saying they're on their side but they're clearly not.

Last edited by Jacoby on 07 Aug 2015, 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.