GO JEWS!! !

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tbh I haven't found you have made a whole lot of sense politically either in articulating your own political views, nor your understanding of the world.



This statement is illogical, for one Jewish people make up a tiny percentage of the world, and there are many more types of radical.

Your views have their origin in old age conspiracies, based on Judeo-Christian rivalry, and were popular with the Nazi and other populist movement which were themselves radical.

Great. Someone starts a thread about Jews and barely one day later someone's whining about "anti-Semitism".

I don't think 0_equals_true is even Jewish. More likely just a well-trained goy.

I imagine the moderators are already watching this thread keenly.

(By the way 0_equals_true, 'anti-antisemitism' is what you are engaging in. I assume that was a typo.)

We make up a tiny percentage of the world but comprise a large % of those who have most influenced the world. From feminism to neoconservatism, dadaism to postmodernism, you name the ISM, the Jewish contribution to the world of ideas is monumental and uncontested. And that isn't an antisemitic or philosemitic view.

What does "Jewish people make up a tiny percentage of the world," have to do with influence or the over-representation of Jews within radical movements? Amongst those influential's is my own patron saint, a radical by the name of Saul Alinski, a brilliant socialist who has guided much of my thinking on how to engage the Left. There's also Noam Chomsky and a whole host of intellectual radicals whose outsized contributions to the Left have laid the foundations for generations to come. And you, being a member of the Left, would also probably find many of my ilk, us Neoconservatives, to also be radicals too. From Robert and Fred Kagan to Bill Kristol, us Neocons are probably radicals in your eyes. You probably think Milton Friedman is a radical, much in the way I think Betty Friedan was a radical. Jesus was a radical, so was Marx and Moses(the Prophet) and Maimonides. Barry Sanders, to me, is a radical, probably in the same way that Barry Goldwater, to you, was a radical.

An antisemite is one who hates a Jew for being a Jew. I think Albert Einstein and many of his contemporaries clarified this: It's not about Jewish arrogance or success. If we're religious, they'll say we're too religious. If we're secular, they'll say we're too secular. We're accused of being capitalists and communists at the same time. We're too rich and we're too poor. We're too educated, we're too uneducated. You may enjoy this talk by Phyllis Goldstein, she develops this even better while dealing with Christian antisemitism.


The only thing you're doing with your "antisemitism" slander is attempting to prostitute the horrific misery of Jewish experience to capture a moral highground you built for yourself. And that's not right. Jews and their experience don't need your defense against "Christians," or "Nazi's." Where they may need your protection, is against people like you who prostitute historical Jewish misery in order to paint the political Right as villains, and also against the many on the Left who vilify the Jews of Israel. They also need your help against a victim group, Muslims, whom many on the Left won't allow anyone to critique. Rampant antisemitism amongst Muslims is infecting the psyche of Europe and the American Left, and yet the Left says nothing about that, or the vile attitude of the majority of Muslims in the Middle have towards Jews. Those are a few places, where if you actually cared about fighting anti-semitism, you could actually do some good.

I've long felt that radicals on the Left are those who see modern day Europe and see nothing but an unsustainable veneer. It's not that they don't have modern-day Europe as an end goal, or that they wouldn't want to see modern-day Europe succeed. It's just that while everyone else is enjoying the capitalist engines of growth, they on the other hand have the foresight to think long term, as well as the desire to be consistent with their values. They don't want the radical Utopian ends that they do, as an end in and of itself, but they think the general public's love affair with capitalism and democracy will be short lived and when the public's eyes are finally open to the way things were all along, they will come to their senses and realize the promised land they enjoyed was never a promised land to begin with, but a paradise living off of borrowed time. So consider them those who are just ahead of the curve.

So I do acknowledge, there are differing ends here, but at the end of the day, they're all just socialists looking for how to make the socialist project work, and one end has popularity because it has managed to work. The other option(the radical's end) isn't off the table though, so I don't think we can call it radical. Instead, I only see it as a pragmatic alternative to consider when people mature, and it's time finally comes. What is radical is that which we would never consider. Nationalism based around Race... or a State allowed to harm its own citizens... now that is radical, and something I don't see the Left returning to, even if circumstances demand it. But nationalizing industry and many of the other actions the Nazi's/Communists engaged in? Those are just reforms.

In other words you are cherry picking the radical movements and leaders to fit your hypothesis.

I think you are overly focused on some conspiracy, rather than actually coming up with convincing ideas yourself.

I am a "descendant of Canaan".

Well I didn't realise MarketAndChurch was Jewish too I must admit.



No, 0_equals_true complained about 'antisemitism' because he's internalized a load of Jewish propaganda about how all us goys have a moral obligation to protect God's Chosen People from the wicked gentile world. Of course, that doesn't stop you from trying to guilt trip him.

"The horrific misery of Jewish experience?" Change the record for goodness sake.

I hate the Jewish people because of their occupation and oppression of the West bank and their police brutality towards children.

You would have to be pretty naive to believe such simplistic explanations of the world.

The reality is both sides of the Israeli-Palestinian situation are at fault.

The situation there is bad, especially in Gaza. The Isrealis are at fault for supporting Hamas in the 80s and Hamas for being barbarians promoting inter-generational suffering for political gain.

However on any objective scale the situation there is only a drop in the ocean compared to all the other problems in the middle east.

Where is the sense of priority?

It it has never been about purely about space or population. In 1946 before the Arab Israeli war the proposed Arab territory was greater the Lebanon with 3/4 of the population with less diversity. The deal was pretty good like Battenburg cake with not one party controlling the centre, each with equal access to to the Med and the east. The reality is it is about which religion is better and who should control the holy land. As an atheist I really don't care for such arguments, as divine right. That doesn't influence my views on statehood.

If you want to defend the Palestinians you can't defend their politicians. The Israel is also more religiously extreme too. I can't defend settlement, but the irony is the one place where the Isrealis have withdrawn, is even further down the toilet. That should tell you something.

Regarding the conspiracies, it doesn't actually matter who they are about, simply they are simplistic and cliquée.

In all fairness, not every Jew is responsible for the actions of the Israeli government, no more than all Germans had been responsible for the actions of the Nazis.

I like apple Jews

Are you comparing Israel to Nazi Germany again?

Again? I have never compared Israel to Nazi Germany. I suspect you have me confused with someone else, as everyone knows us liberals all look alike.
But seriously, it was not my intention to compare the two. Rather, my point was, citizens of a country can't be held accountable for the actions of their government.
Incidentally, it had been conservatives who were the most vocal Antisemites at one time, till they got on the end times/Book of Revelations kick in more recent decades, and decided they had to stay on God's good side by politically standing with Israel.

Fair enough.


I think it would be fair to say that you can't be held accountable for the actions of your government unless you support your government in doing something they shouldn't be doing, like instigating world war, executing homosexuals, killing jews, stoning women to death, and the list goes on and on, but none of Israel's actions are on that list as far as I can tell.

No, Israel doesn't do any of those things.
As for starting a war - - if citizens of a country can be held accountable for that, then a great many Americans would be guilty of supporting Bush's ill-thought out military adventures. People can be misled by their governments into supporting terrible ideas, which is what had happened with the Germans under Hitler. As for the other Nazi atrocities - well, it was no accident that most of these crimes against humanity were committed elsewhere, such as occupied Poland, away from the eyes of the German people.

Some wars are just. Both Bush and Obama should be proud of winning the righteous wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.


Probably not entirely untrue.