The clinical definition of magical thinking

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Edenthiel
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24 Nov 2015, 1:13 pm

DevilKisses wrote:
Edenthiel wrote:
DevilKisses wrote:
Edenthiel wrote:
DevilKisses wrote:
0_equals_true wrote:
I believe that magical thinking is related to the schizotypal spectrum. However this is not the same as saying it is abnormal, on the contrary. The vast majority are sub-clinical as far as mental illness is concerned. This just a neurotype among others very common and, it is not mutually exclusive to other neurotype.

I have had this theory for a while till I found out that Stanford Neurologist Robert Sapolsky shared the same view.

I have a more refined hypothesis about functions of the brain related to this thinking, which plays an important role along side the analytical functions in decision making and has a biological clear purpose. magical thinking is merely a possible result of some patterns of interaction between the two.

I think I somewhat fit the criteria for schizotypal disorder, but I've been avoiding that by focusing on my anxiety and depression and not talking about my magical thinking. As far as the psychiatrists know I'm an aspie with anxiety and depression.

As a defense mechanism I have a very black and white definition of magical and non-magical thinking. When I was a kid I didn't and that got me into trouble. If someone seems like the type of person that would find magical thinking crazy I self-sensor to avoid look crazy to them.


You recognize that it is magical thinking in order to self-censor, correct?

Yeah. Just because I recognize something is magical thinking doesn't mean I stop believing in it. I've also though of ways of saying things differently so it won't seem like magical thinking. If I had a weird experience with a spirit I'll just call it a weird dream instead, so I can laugh about it with more skeptical people.


That makes far more sense to my understanding of magical thinking, especially in people who are higher functioning. I completely understand that idea of a translation layer. Do you find it tiring, even when it's automatic?

Thank you for explaining further, btw.

It's not very tiring to translate.
I do sometimes feel like a lot is missed in translation. A lot of my magical beliefs overlap with science and psychology. An example is sleep paralysis. The scientific explanation is that you're half asleep and experiencing hypnagogic hallucinations.

I agree with that, but I also think that it's a way for spirits to easily interact with you. I also like to keep explanations of my beliefs as abstract and distant as possible. I notice I get less personal attacks that way.


When I first wake up I am still disconnected from my body (including senses) and then after some fair period of time one by one my senses connect. The strangest is always hearing, as it's amazing how noisy ears are even in a very quiet room. Hypnopompic, not hypnogogic, but I can see how during that time interesting things can happen. There are reasons so many aboriginal/First People/indigenous cultures have ancient traditions based on the wakeful dreaming state. It is the time that your Self is most open and least distracted. Interestingly, if you study them you find magical thinking is part and parcel; it seems they celebrated it instead of making it something shameful. I find that interesting.


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techstepgenr8tion
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24 Nov 2015, 7:04 pm

Magical thinking is a slippery topic because on one hand people can quite easily lose their adjustment to interface with society if they dive off into own world and even if they are well adjusted they can destabilize themselves in the face of surprising or difficult circumstances that could more easily catch them off guard in an ungrounded state. At the same time if a person uses it deliberately and methodically there's also a particularly hefty silver lining - that a person can change themselves and their lives in ways, for the better even, that they would not have had methodical access to achieve by other available means.

I think it's fine for a person to pray, to meditate, to experience what gets coined as astral travel, etc.. so long as they're doing it in the spirit of attempting to reach out for a kind of internal competency or to get an internal resource assessment rather than for escapism. OTOH if impressions strong enough to persuade a person that they're talking to dragons start coming in, without drugs or without any kind of deliberate action on a person's part to make that happen, there's a lot that needs to be considered quickly. Does schizophrenia run in the family? Is there perhaps a medical crisis driving the situation? Even if neither turn out to be the case you have to carefully consider whether or not it's something that you can make use of an integrate into your life, perhaps like a helpful synaesthesia if harnessed right, or whether it's a door that needs to be closed whether for the longterm or at least temporarily.

As far as something like divining practices - it's best for a person to stay undecided as to whether the cards, runes, etc.. are actually giving them a message from the Universe or whether they're simply helping them elucidate their own understandings of particular situation. Even at that it's best for people to err on the side of adjustment rather than on the side of the fantastic if they're attempting to court both.


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DevilKisses
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27 Nov 2015, 2:38 am

There's no schizophrenia in my family as far as I know. My family seems to be full of rational and autistic people.


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techstepgenr8tion
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27 Nov 2015, 11:19 am

DevilKisses wrote:
There's no schizophrenia in my family as far as I know. My family seems to be full of rational and autistic people.

Schizophrenia usually has a rapid onset as well and that's something that would be relatively unambiguous after several weeks of the condition progressing.

If you don't think it has a medical basis the next step is probably seeing if you can get your magical thinking to fly in formation and be supportive of a successful life and adjustment. One of the tricks I've been using in my own case, albeit I deliberately re-introduced it, is having something like imaginary friends as off-board loops for my personality but in the adult utility of such agencies I have them there a bit like teachers who have both a lot of love and constructive criticism for me at the right times. A good example of how I'd use that; if something is falling down in my life and I know what I should be thinking (ie. the best choice of reaction) but the emotional storms are coming in too hard and fast to be able to shift gears - it's that offboard loop which interacts with me as if I were talking to another supportive and altruistic human being able to tell me what I know I need to tell myself and have a significant psychological/emotional pull. It might sound unnecessary or superfluous to some people but especially as a life-long high self monitor due to how I've engaged my autism there's a very real difference in how my nervous system reacts to my suggestions vs. real or perceived social validation.

I don't know how autonomous what you're experiencing is from your conscious thoughts and states of mind but if it's noticeably correlated then there's a pretty good chance that you could get a lot of these elements to corroborate with you as a team. Clearly if you have manifestation of entities aside from yourself you'd want to treat them as people and particularly handle them according to their own behavior - if they're well disposed you can treat them with a lot of respect, if they're ill-disposed you'll want to exert your authority over them as politely as you can but essentially dictate the terms of any interaction and let them know in no uncertain terms that they can either behave better or not have a place in your life (or you can nurture them from a maternal/superior position if you feel like they're simply wounded, feeble, and don't know any other way).

Let me know if that makes sense. I just think too big a deal gets made sometimes of whether or not a person engages in highly subjective ways of thinking rather than parsing the difference of whether or not they use it constructively or in such a way that strengthens their integrity and societal adjustment rather than diminishing it.


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