US poor whites are manipulated

Post Reply New Topic

Trump's stab at healthcare reform is pretty much unrealistic and free of any substance. I doubt his economic policy will be any different.

Also, I'm not a hillary supporter, but your figure of $25 million for speeches is complete fantasy, much like your hopes for a Trump presidency.

I'll say it again. Trump is completely clueless and he has no ideas of any practical substance. Any real policies that spring from a Trump administration will come from the usual gang of idiots making GOP policy now.

The best we'll get from president Trump will be business as usual...

... and if he actually tries to implement some of the nutty BS he talks about... Well, God help us all.

No one overshadows the rapist Bill Clinton

Trump was a billionaire playboy that went out with supermodels and actresses while Bill preyed on vulnerable women whether they were willing or not and used his wife to intimidate and silence them. The Clinton's were the original slut shamers, that was their defense against every accusation. Deny everything or just shame them as dirty money grubbing prostitutes, Bill got himself impeached for bold faced lies directly to the American People. Hillary and Bill's marriage by almost all accounts is one of mutual convenience, Bill gave Hillary a political career and Hillary gave Bill the appearance of someone who wasn't a total pig. Does Bill get elected president if Hillary divorced his ass back in the 80s? I seriously doubt it. I believe Hillary to be more to women like Huma than she is her husband, all the stories going back decades have said this and they've quoted Bill's own words about it so do I not believe they have real marriage but rather sham one for political purposes. If they could find one accusation even remotely approaching what Bill did on the regular they would be screaming it from the roof tops but oh no! All of Trumps ex's think he's a good guy and actually support his candidacy for president. Victims of sexual assault deserved to be heard, believed, and supported right? That is what Hillary started her campaign on, you can't wiggle out from that level delusion.

and Bill you have already admitted you will vote for anybody with a D behind their name, you're a blind partisan so for anybody to accuse people looking at things in black and white it shouldn't be you. Trump is running a campaign based on hope and change, sounds familiar right? Trump is not being coronated, he is facing a corporate media assault like no other in history but it's not working! The people are waking up to what a bad deal they've been being served for decades now, they want an America for Americans not an America for the special interests. Trump hits on enough issues so it comes down to whether or not you find Trump credible or not when compared to alternatives and when the alternative is Hillary Clinton it is an easy choice.

Trump's stab at healthcare reform is what? Free of substance? How? Do you think Obamacare is working well? Do you think it is a 'good' law? You might like the 'spirit' of the law but reality was that it was written by the same health insurance companies that Obama was demonizing while running for president.

also about the $25 million http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/b ... 014-118009

They've made more than $153 million in speaking fees since 2001, there are some serious serious problems with the Clinton Foundation and a lot of questions of quid pro quo. The Clinton's have a lot of money issues, think of Whitewater and think $1000 Hillary someone turned into $100,000 in 10 months in the late 70s off 'cattle futures' in her one foray into the stock market and never again for some reason. Very odd don't you think? Lets see those 5 draft indictments for Hillary from the Whitewater investigation, the taxpayers paid for it so why can't we see what they found as it is very relevant I think to who we choose as the next president.

Trump has destroyed the Republican establishment, he has destroyed the 'conservative intelligentsia', he has said things that no one would dare say in Republican circles had he not been in this race. Are we talking about illegal immigration if Trump is not in this race? Maybe but probably not. Are we talking trade without Trump in this race? I seriously doubt it even with Bernie in the race. Trump was somebody they could not ignore and he beat them at their own game, I saw what they did trying to curb Ron Paul candidacies so I'm sensitive to establishment trying to throw their weight around and the funniest part of it all was that the rule changes they made to stop Ron Paul actually ended up benefiting Trump. It's not going to be the same old same old, if it is then I guess Trump really is the Republican Obama but Trump is leading his party on policy and you can pretend that the few crumbs he throws these people as proof of his insincerity but he has significantly changed what the rules are to be considered a conservative. Now the Democrats are the party of big business, free trade, and war.

Trump wins Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virgina, North Carolina, Wisconsin, maybe Illinois, he will change the electoral map and win the election. Trump's appeal is something that cross racial, he'll win more of the black vote than any Republican in generations and he'll do better than any other Republican this cycle with Hispanics. They talk about this 'woman' problem Trump has but men hate Hillary way more and women like her way less than men like Trump, more Democrats have an issue with Hillary as their nominee than Republicans do with Trump being their nominee.

People try to say Trump is so stupid and he no substance but substance does Hillary have? What substance did Ted Cruz have? What substance does Bernie Sanders have? Trump has laid more plans than anybody, he's not afraid to spitball ideas which isn't a bad thing. He's so stupid and clueless about policy according people who so stupid and clueless to think he had not chance at winning the nomination, coastal elitists don't know **** about America or the concerns of the common people. Obviously Trump is much much smarter than given credit, he's defeated all these enemies that thought they were so smart and built an entire rigged system to enshrine them in perpetuity but Trump still because he knew how to speak the language and spoke to the issues most important to Americans.


What nutty 'bs', start actually saying what you mean dude because that doesn't mean anything to me. Is being against NAFTA nutty? Is being against the Iraq War nutty? Is questioning NATO nutty? Is wanting a better relationship with Russia nutty? I don't think so, those are good things. I forget who's who on this forum sometimes, you're Denmark right or is that some other dude?

No, I said I wouldn't vote for anyone with an R behind his or her name.
And Trump has admitted to sex with married women, making him an adulterer still.

Have you actually bothered to look at it? Zealous supporter that you are, surely you have...

His big reform is allowing policies to be sold across state lines. Other than that, it eliminates the personal mandate, and allows restriction of pre existing conditions again. Basically, it is completely useless.

It is pretty much the same as going back to nothing, and that's not sustainable anymore. Nothing drives up costs like caring for the uninsured because hospitals are required to treat everyone regardless of ablity to pay.

The ACA is a terrible law, but it is much better than nothing. Going back to nothing, Trump's plan, will crash the medical system in short order.



This source says $12 million, too much but not $25 millon. Regardless, I don't care. I'm not disputing that the Cinton's are scumbags. They are.



Trump's nutty BS:

The above mentioned healthcare reform. His cognitive dissonance on economics I already mentioned. The fact that he thinks letting Asia go full nuclear is a good idea. His comments on national debt. His comments on having the supreme court prosecute people...

There's a ton more.

One thing you need to understand about Trump is that he is already negotiating and part of playing politics is the balancing act he is doing right now, on healthcare leftists should like Trump more than any other Republican since has praised socialized medicine in Canada and the UK which is unheard of in a Republican debate. If you want to actually get things done then it be best to negotiate with Trump on the bully pulpit because 'universal healthcare' is far more possible under him than it is Comrade Sanders who can barely work with fellow Democrats let alone Republicans and lets not even get started on Hillary who would be a lame duck on day 1.

Trump said that wouldn't get rid of coverage of pre-existing conditions and that he 'wouldn't let people die in the street', he gets rid of the mandate and the federal subsidies which simply were not working. The Medicaid expansion helped people probably more than anything from Obamacare and the cat is out of the bag on that, the most popular provision will be kept and some other ideas will be tried. Considering the failure Obamacare has been and it is an unraveling failure, it's not just a bad law it is getting worse. Allowing insurance companies to compete across state lines and a tax deduction for those that buy their own health insurance will help a bit but this idea that any of these plans on any of these candidates sites will look anything like the final product is silly because passing legislation takes give and take. We've been hearing about this Obamacare death spiral for years now, it is not working and getting worse.

I don't have an issues with Trump's comments on those other things, why do we care if South Korea and Japan acquire nuclear weapons? China and North Korea already have them, we have stored nuclear weapons in South Korea and Japan so I don't see why two of our closest allies in Asia shouldn't be able to defend their own nation with their own money. What he said about the debt was correct, I liked what he said the first time more when it sounded like he was talking about selective default which in the long run has to happen since paying off this debt at this point is impossible and it will have to be renegotiated. Not sure what you are talking about with the last one.

A lot of people here are too stupid to realize that wealth does not equate to evil and that democrats are just as wealthy as republicans in general. Do you think democrats don't take a pay check?

It's not that we believe that wealth equals evil, but rather how the right places the plight of the poor on their so called lack of personal responsibility, all the while practically deifying the rich. It's the hard hearted political and social dogma that justifies leaving the poor to die in their own filth that we find so abhorrent. Their chosen theology - prosperity gospel and dominionist fundamentalism - allows them to sleep soundly at night by justifying such dogma.

If he brings back "pre-existing conditions" there will be riots. f**k, I'll be one of the rioters. The bastard will have blood on his hands. People's lives are at stake.

Trump pretty explicitly said that he won't bring back pre-existing conditions and that he 'would let people die in the street'. Obamacare fundamentally does not work, it is causing healthcare costs to rise and people are having fewer and fewer choices. Medicaid is even worse now than it was before when they said it really wasn't much better than no insurance at all because fewer doctors are seeing the huge new influx new patients. Something needs to be done about the costs, Obamacare does nothing about the cost. Whatever Trump comes up would probably be better.

Then what will Trump do that's better?

Government isn't responsible for the costs. Private greed is. People can't shop for doctors based on cost, thus doctors can charge whatever the hell they want.

It's more accurate to say people WON'T shop for doctors based on cost. When I'm having surgery, I look for the best, most skilled doctor, not the cheapest. You simply cannot approach the healthcare system like a free market. It won't work. The psychology is not the same.

You should read up on the health insurance market in California before the ACA. The customer pool was actually shrinking because sick people were getting cancelled and/or priced out of the insurance market. However, because hospitals are required to treat everyone, these super-sick uninsured people were still driving up costs for everyone.

There are only two ways to control costs. The first involves universal insurance (single payer would be best but ACA is better then nothing) and price regulation. The second involves treating only those people who can pay for care. That's it.

Since nobody seems to have the stomach for option two, we need to make option one work. The ACA is at least a step toward that. Scrapping it because it has problems is irrational and silly.

Here in the US we have a big problem making perfection the enemy of the good. This is what opponents of the ACA keep on doing.

Trump can spout all the platitudes he wants about keeping preexisting conditions covered, and making sure the poor won't die in the streets, but that won't fix this problem.

The fact remains, Trump doesn't have any realistic ideas for fixing healthcare, and despite his intentions, his meddling is apt to make things worse and hurt a lot of vulnerable people.

Obamacare wasn't realistic, if we knew ahead of time the disaster the law would be it never would of passed. I really think it is a hollow accomplishment that has made healthcare more expensive and more scarce, the mandate will not keep prices down which are skyrocketing and is fundamentally un-American. Obamacare was so bad that people thought Obama was deliberately trying to crash and ruin the American healthcare system so he could implement universal top-down socialized medicine which could never pass or get enough public support otherwise. It was a huge huge handout to the insurance industry, mandating people buy a service from a private company is in no way a tax and I think everybody that paid attention to that debate knows the mandate was never considered a tax until that was the only way for it to be found constitutional. John Roberts showed his true colors, he blinked in the face of power because we do not have 3 co-equal branches of government but rather an executive branch that acts more like dictators that rule by decree which is where the presidency seems to be going with all these executive orders.

Whatever Trump comes up with will be better since it will be designed specifically to address fatal flaws in Obamacare, it has to change because we have no choice. Trump will work with congress and negotiate a bipartisan deal, he is not a partisan ideologue and has said that his proposals right now are starting points and probably not anything close to what the finished deal will look like because Trump will have to work with congress unlike Obama who was elected with absolute power to do whatever he wanted with supermajorities in the House and Senate.

You are too attached to something that was actually originally a Republican idea, don't cling to it like a raft in the middle of the ocean. Obama's time as president was an abject failure, people need to let it go and stop looking for legacy beyond the fact that he was the first biracial president because almost everything else is bad.

Like Obamacare is the worst of everything, it is corporatist healthcare and I don't think even most Republicans would disagree that a public option would of been of been preferable at this point because that was the only thing that even hinted about being able to control costs but instead we've mandated people buy private insurance when health insurance costs were already skyrocketing. This idea that it's going to lower costs by all these people no longer coming into the ER or urgent care or whatever but that hasn't been the case and people expect to use their coverage not pay for it and not use it so someone else can benefit. If all these uninsured getting medical care like that is a real issue then maybe the 30 million illegal immigrants in this country should go home or we should force their government's to foot their bill, many of whom come from countries with universal healthcare. Mexico would be much more interested in repatriation is remittance payments were taxed or they were faced with an import tariff, estimate the grand cost these people cost us and send them the bill. Either they'll build that wall and take their people back or they'll be deadbeats we extract money from.

So, please explain how negotiating with "the corrupt establishment" congress is going to produce something better than the ACA.

How is Trump going to magically make everyone see reason--especially when his ideas don't make any sense?

At best we'll have the blind leading the bad. That doesn't seem conducive to a good outcome.






The idea that the ACA is some sort of sweetheart deal for insurance companies is just not true. United Health recently announced that they would not sell policies over the health exchanges anymore.

For all intents, they are withdrawing from the ACA because they don't want to cover sick people (who can only afford coverage with the government subsidy offered by the exchange).

It is pretty clear that you do not grasp the economics of healthcare. Trump doesn't seem to either.


Please explain to me how your faith in Trump to fix this, or anything, is justified.

It seems pretty irrational and borderline cultish to me.

Your faith is in a system that isn't working, that is the entire point. The criticisms you have for Trump's plan could be applied to Obama's, it's not a shock that it is an awful awful law because everybody except the president's most ardent supporters thought it was going to be a bad law before it was even signed. Did Obama understand the economics of healthcare? He did pick a Heritage Foundation plan as his signature legislative accomplishment I guess but I find it pretty funny now that it is now being guarded by a bunch of 'progressives' who are more concerned about Obama's legacy than whether or not the law is actually working. It has to work or what does that say about Obama's presidency? What does it say about their political movement?

You are you just being belligerent towards the idea that Trump could do anything good, explain how Trump can negotiate a better deal with congress? Well for one he can actually talk to Republicans AND Democrats while crafting the deal unlike Obama who sought no bipartisan support, there is a very specific reason for this too because it's not just obstructionism because the Democrats didn't want Republicans to get any credit for healthcare reform because they wanted to use it as a battering ram in future elections but their gamble with all their political capital went bust almost instantly. It's not hard to make a better deal because no deal was made, this was a plan that was implemented by force with parliamentary procedure with no Republican support. There needs to be give and take, we'd get a better law easily. Trump is not an ideologue and Trump having the bully pulpit is a powerful thing, remember Obama use to give speeches almost every other week while trying to get this law passed. Obama has never been a strong leader, he's always been detached and unable to take criticism.