Why is free college such a crazy idea? (Hint: IT'S NOT)
The more money the government puts into something, the more expensive that something becomes. Take the University of Washington for example, the price for tuition (just tuition) is right around $12,000 (it's actually a little less, but this number is easier to work with). Let's say that a plan like Bernie Sanders has comes into play and he's able to generate enough revenue from increased taxes for the federal government to pay that amount for every student. It works exactly as planned (yeah right) and everything's good to go. Demand at the university is sky high and all the students are happy.
Next year, the UW administrators decide to raise tuition prices. The school is not controlled by the federal government and can raise their prices as they see fit. So they increase fees to $15,000. The federal government is able to increase taxes again and are able to fully fund tuition at the higher level and everyone is happy except for the people who's taxes went up.
The following year, the UW administrators thought things went so smoothly the previous year, they raise the prices from $15,000 to $20,000. The federal government still doesn't have control over the school so there's no way they can stop them so they're forced to raise taxes again or back out of their plan to fully pay for tuition. This cycle would continue until we're in the exact same situation we're in now where the federal government would only be able to pay a percentage of the tuition and students would have to go back to getting private/public loans to cover the difference. The loan amounts would be small at first, but as the universities continue to raise rates, and the money the federal government contributes remains the same, the loan amounts would have to increase to cover the difference. Ultimately, students would be in the exact situation they're in now with the government wasting billions of dollars for absolutely no advantage over where we're currently at.
Now I do have another idea. For the jobs that need people (like doctors) then having those students education paid for might make sense and a lot of that money should come from the employers who will get the use of these people - not the taxpayers. Once these students graduate, then they must give the employers so many years of service. A lot of college students go to college for degrees where no jobs are even available. Waste of time and money.
My schooling is going up 5% this year . The hospital I work for will be paying for some of it - the rest will be paid by me by working extra of necessary. I don't expect others to pay my way.
What exactly has been given to me? You seem to assume I just live off of welfare or something.
And I'm pretty sure the employer paying for education thing already exists to some extent at least, but yes that makes sense. But what is aggravating to me is that many people think college only makes sense if used directly for getting a job, or else it is completely useless and a waste of time. What happened to going to college for the for personal growth and experience? Why does it all have to be about making money? Yes, you need money to live, but money isn't everything. And perhaps if they taught us anything useful career-wise in high school this would not be as much of a problem.
_________________
"It has long been an axiom of mine that the little things are infinitely the most important."
- Sherlock Holmes
Next year, the UW administrators decide to raise tuition prices. The school is not controlled by the federal government and can raise their prices as they see fit. So they increase fees to $15,000. The federal government is able to increase taxes again and are able to fully fund tuition at the higher level and everyone is happy except for the people who's taxes went up.
The following year, the UW administrators thought things went so smoothly the previous year, they raise the prices from $15,000 to $20,000. The federal government still doesn't have control over the school so there's no way they can stop them so they're forced to raise taxes again or back out of their plan to fully pay for tuition. This cycle would continue until we're in the exact same situation we're in now where the federal government would only be able to pay a percentage of the tuition and students would have to go back to getting private/public loans to cover the difference. The loan amounts would be small at first, but as the universities continue to raise rates, and the money the federal government contributes remains the same, the loan amounts would have to increase to cover the difference. Ultimately, students would be in the exact situation they're in now with the government wasting billions of dollars for absolutely no advantage over where we're currently at.
Then why not give the government control? I find it odd that people think the government controlling something must necessarily be bad. This isn't a dictatorship; the people have more control of the government than they think.
I just don't see why it would be so difficult to have tuition-free public college when we already put everybody through 12 years of public education without any tuition. How hard could it be to do 4 more years (for a smaller amount of people too, since not everyone will qualify or want to attend)? There are still private schools for those who have that kind of money, and for everyone else who doesn't, there is public school.
_________________
"It has long been an axiom of mine that the little things are infinitely the most important."
- Sherlock Holmes
Ban-Dodger
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Did you actually even read the whole thing or are you one of those types of people who lacks the ability to humble himself just because the source does not come from your bible/qu'ran/law-book ? Are you one of those people who refuses to have an audience with "unestablished social-status" people just because they have not given you proof of being a king or leader of some kingdom ? Did you seriously just call that a "random" thread even when it's specifically related regarding these discussions ? Are you one of those people that judges books by its covers before even bothering to read any of its content ?
[John 21:25] "For the teacher known as Jesus did [and taught] many things... such that I suppose that not even the entire world would be able to contain all of the books of everything that could be written."
Yeah, I thought you were, and that is why you make threads like this, because you haven't actually done your homework/research yet. Not trying to be belligerent, but at least put some effort into judging/intepreting the content rather than the cover of discussion, for you could have learned that you CAN take college-classes already, for FREE (on-line), with accredited certification/diploma being issued/delivered/mailed to you upon successful completion, unless if course you did not actually read anything within.
[1 Corinthians 1:27] "For the Sovereign-Power hath chosen the things the world considers foolish to shame those who think that they are wise; the b***h called Karma hath chosen the weak things of the world to topple those who boast of their strengths"
Perhaps you would rather listen to Ben Shapiro instead on the failure of college-education ?
That guy has literally HOURS worth of content you can hear from IN-DEPTH debates/discussions.
Here, I will get you started, this is ONE out of MANY authors/publishers on colleges, for your info...
This isn't even covering the "intentional dumbing down of Americans" Conspiracy Evidence Documentaries.
I don't think that counts either, dude. A random thread on a forum for a MMORPG? I can't tell if you're being serious.
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Ban-Dodger
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Yes it is; it's an autocratic dictatorship. What you believe is an illusion...
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How so?
Think about, how many people before Vietnam even went to college? I mean we've advanced as a society since then but really only slightly, look at how tuition inflation compares to CPI, increasing over 1000% since 1978. Were we complete stupid cavemen 40 years ago? Did our society not function? There is no point to college education for most people, most people can and are trained on the job if they're even lucky enough to get one because college can't train you for the specific job you may be getting. It may be an enriching experience for some but we can't have the taxpayers pay for kids to 'find themselves', not only is it unfeasible from a fiscal standpoint but it makes college degrees completely worthless which makes it even harder for the disadvantaged to rise up thru society. Remember that at the big prestigious colleges there is something of a caste system, if you're daddy went there and his daddy went there then you are at a much greater advantage than those who busted their ass to get there with no one on their side. They'd just be much more expensive high school diplomas with more subversive Marxism thrown in, it doesn't prepare people for jobs and puts them in debt slavery. The government should stop guaranteeing student loans and allow people to discharge them in bankruptcy because if you can't get a job with your degree then their job as educators has been a failure, we are literally building ivory towers for these folks and 100,000 capacity coliseums for sports that bring in millions but never seem to lower tuition or up the quality of education.
There are much better things to spend money on, it seems like college is making kids stupider nowadays in a lot of ways so it should be something that shouldn't be FORCED on the population which what making it 'free' does, it makes it another high school.
I can see what you're saying, but I don't think making it "another high school" necessarily means it would make college degrees as useless as high school diplomas. At least with degrees in STEM fields I don't see how that's the case, because you pretty much need college-level education to go into those fields. Everything else I'm not so sure about.
But at the very least, would it not be a good thing to have free community college, with programs that directly train people for halfway decent jobs? At least then they would have the income to afford further education down the road. As it is now, without pulling out loans or spending thousands of dollars out of pocket, you pretty much get a choice between McDonald's and Wal-Mart after high school.
_________________
"It has long been an axiom of mine that the little things are infinitely the most important."
- Sherlock Holmes
[John 21:25] "For the teacher known as Jesus did [and taught] many things... such that I suppose that not even the entire world would be able to contain all of the books of everything that could be written."
Yeah, I thought you were, and that is why you make threads like this, because you haven't actually done your homework/research yet. Not trying to be belligerent, but at least put some effort into judging/intepreting the content rather than the cover of discussion, for you could have learned that you CAN take college-classes already, for FREE (on-line), with accredited certification/diploma being issued/delivered/mailed to you upon successful completion, unless if course you did not actually read anything within.
[1 Corinthians 1:27] "For the Sovereign-Power hath chosen the things the world considers foolish to shame those who think that they are wise; the b***h called Karma hath chosen the weak things of the world to topple those who boast of their strengths"
Perhaps you would rather listen to Ben Shapiro instead on the failure of college-education ?
That guy has literally HOURS worth of content you can hear from IN-DEPTH debates/discussions.
Here, I will get you started, this is ONE out of MANY authors/publishers on colleges, for your info...
This isn't even covering the "intentional dumbing down of Americans" Conspiracy Evidence Documentaries.
I don't think that counts either, dude. A random thread on a forum for a MMORPG? I can't tell if you're being serious.
Yeah, sometimes I judge a book by its cover, if the cover looks really bad. Also, yes, I generally do like to get my information from a trusted and verified source.
And I'll be honest, I get a little discouraged when I am sent a five page thread to read. I was expecting something a little more clear and concise and I was just given a wall of text. I might read it later, there may be some interesting stuff in there like you say, but I just thought you could tell me your own ideas rather than give me a bunch of assignments.
And yes, this country is corrupted by big businesses who have way too much power. But it's because people are fat and happy, and so they don't give a s**t, and are blissfully unaware. If they all decided they weren't gonna take this crap anymore, they wouldn't have to. That's what I was saying. But yeah, probably wishful thinking.
_________________
"It has long been an axiom of mine that the little things are infinitely the most important."
- Sherlock Holmes
Now I do have another idea. For the jobs that need people (like doctors) then having those students education paid for might make sense and a lot of that money should come from the employers who will get the use of these people - not the taxpayers. Once these students graduate, then they must give the employers so many years of service. A lot of college students go to college for degrees where no jobs are even available. Waste of time and money.
My schooling is going up 5% this year . The hospital I work for will be paying for some of it - the rest will be paid by me by working extra of necessary. I don't expect others to pay my way.
What exactly has been given to me? You seem to assume I just live off of welfare or something.
And I'm pretty sure the employer paying for education thing already exists to some extent at least, but yes that makes sense. But what is aggravating to me is that many people think college only makes sense if used directly for getting a job, or else it is completely useless and a waste of time. What happened to going to college for the for personal growth and experience? Why does it all have to be about making money? Yes, you need money to live, but money isn't everything. And perhaps if they taught us anything useful career-wise in high school this would not be as much of a problem.
Omg. I am so mad right now that I can't even see straight. Am I really understanding you correctly?! You think that I, as a taxpayer, am going to help fund your good time while you go to college getting PERSONAL GROWTH?! WHAT?! And then you come out and can't even help contribute to society by working a job (do you even know what a job is?) BECAUSE other people are going to want to go to college for free just like you do and they will need you to work and pay your fair share of taxes to fund their free 4 yr PERSONAL GROWTH vacation. What planet are you living on?! I bet you want to be a professional student, don't you? Because once your little joy ride is over, then what? You won't be able to find a job that specializes in PERSONAL GROWTH! What bullsh!t and I mean complete BULLSH!T! I can't believe I wasted time reading your thread - time that I will never get back. I need to go meditate to calm myself down.
_________________
Me grumpy?
I'm happiness challenged.
Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.
Now I do have another idea. For the jobs that need people (like doctors) then having those students education paid for might make sense and a lot of that money should come from the employers who will get the use of these people - not the taxpayers. Once these students graduate, then they must give the employers so many years of service. A lot of college students go to college for degrees where no jobs are even available. Waste of time and money.
My schooling is going up 5% this year . The hospital I work for will be paying for some of it - the rest will be paid by me by working extra of necessary. I don't expect others to pay my way.
What exactly has been given to me? You seem to assume I just live off of welfare or something.
And I'm pretty sure the employer paying for education thing already exists to some extent at least, but yes that makes sense. But what is aggravating to me is that many people think college only makes sense if used directly for getting a job, or else it is completely useless and a waste of time. What happened to going to college for the for personal growth and experience? Why does it all have to be about making money? Yes, you need money to live, but money isn't everything. And perhaps if they taught us anything useful career-wise in high school this would not be as much of a problem.
Omg. I am so mad right now that I can't even see straight. Am I really understanding you correctly?! You think that I, as a taxpayer, am going to help fund your good time while you go to college getting PERSONAL GROWTH?! WHAT?! And then you come out and can't even help contribute to society by working a job (do you even know what a job is?) BECAUSE other people are going to want to go to college for free just like you do and they will need you to work and pay your fair share of taxes to fund their free 4 yr PERSONAL GROWTH vacation. What planet are you living on?! I bet you want to be a professional student, don't you? Because once your little joy ride is over, then what? You won't be able to find a job that specializes in PERSONAL GROWTH! What bullsh!t and I mean complete BULLSH!T! I can't believe I wasted time reading your thread - time that I will never get back. I need to go meditate to calm myself down.
Ok... I wasn't saying people should fund my "personal growth vacation". I was just saying I think we are way too focused on money in this country. It's all about money and what job will get you the most money, what degree will get you the most money, when there are other ways to be a force for good in society besides being a doctor or lawyer and making a s**t ton of money.
_________________
"It has long been an axiom of mine that the little things are infinitely the most important."
- Sherlock Holmes
Doesn't the government mostly already fund college anyway with loans and grants?
One of the theories on why tuition is so expensive in the first place because colleges know they can keep increasing the tuition, and the government will keep footing the bill.
I'd like to see colleges compete based on what an average student can afford to pay.
_________________
"If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced."
-XFG (no longer a moderator)
Jacoby
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Yep.....That probably had something to do with it.
By the way: I don't see anything wrong, really, with providing a free college education--provided that there are controls within that educational system which will seek to alleviate goof-offs.
What I mean by goof-off is not merely somebody who is weird and has an alternative mindset. I meant the person who drinks his/her self to oblivion, and then doesn't attend class.
I am not sure whether or not it would be feasible for a country as large as the US to be able to manage free college from the federal level.
For me with this or other federal programs like welfare it isn't as much about the money as it is the moral argument of someone getting something for free and someone else having to pay for it. Plus students from wealthy families, such as the Wall Street billionaires that Bernie likes to talk about, will get to take advantage of the same program.
One of the theories on why tuition is so expensive in the first place because colleges know they can keep increasing the tuition, and the government will keep footing the bill.
I'd like to see colleges compete based on what an average student can afford to pay.
Great idea. And have the schools do the loans instead of the government. What's been happening is some people wouldn't pay back the government loans and the government would take the hit. Although now, the government is coming after students pretty hard.
_________________
Me grumpy?
I'm happiness challenged.
Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.
One of the theories on why tuition is so expensive in the first place because colleges know they can keep increasing the tuition, and the government will keep footing the bill.
I'd like to see colleges compete based on what an average student can afford to pay.
After thinking about it, how would that work? Most kids who go full time and stay on campus will have to get loans.
_________________
Me grumpy?
I'm happiness challenged.
Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.
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