Why Christianity is so Persistant

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I ask you to re-read my post then. If humans have free will, God still knew from before the creation of the world what each and everyone of them would decide to do in each and every situation, and if humans are predestined to act a certain way it's still them making the descision, it doesn't matter if God made you a person who would take path "A", it is still you who took path "A". Free will and predestination can and in fact must coexist.

Predestination and Free will are not directly contradictory. By definition we do what we want to do, we may regret our actions later and we may not like any of the choices open to us, but we do what we want to do in the moment. Free will simply means that we are allowed to decide for ourselves what we want to do, and predestination simply means that God knew what we would do and made plans for us by making each of us in such a way that we would follow his plans by our own free will.

Predestination and free will cannot co-exist. For an event or choice to be predestined to happen (especially by a God who is supposed to be all powerful) it has to be known that it will happen. It is certain. To know something (note: this should not be interpreted as 'believe', 'feel', or 'theorise') means it must be true. There is no doubt involved at all. To have free will means having the ability to make any number of choices by oneself.

Scenario #1: Let's say that God knows that you will become a doctor. When you are in high school you spend more time and effort on homework and studying than anything else. You get a high scores and are accepted to an excellent university. You study medicine and become a doctor. This doesn't seem like free will at all. God knew you were going to become a doctor therefore no matter what happened you had no choice but to become a doctor. Even though you did the work, God already knewThis makes God infallible.

Scenario #2: Let's say that God knows that you will become a doctor. When you are in high school you have a science teacher that you hate. This completely turns you off to anything in the field of science. One teacher you have a tight bond with is your music teacher. They inspire you to play music so you join a rock band after high school. You tour the country and become quite successful. This is free will, but God determined what you would do in life at the same time. This is impossible also it doesn't make God all knowing.

Scenario #3: It is not predetermined what you are going to do with your life. You are interested in becoming a doctor. You do well in school and attend a good university. While at university you change your mind and decide to become a writer. There is free will and no predestination. This can also make God infallible as he made no decision in the first place.

There has to be either free will or predestination, but not both. If you think you have both it either means you actually aren't the one making the choices or God isn't almighty.

Personally, I believe a person has free will. How can the amount of homeless people be explained? If God chooses some people to live in poverty, he is more cruel than any person I know. It doesn't seem to be the characteristic of a 'loving' God. Also what about Christians being obsessed with saving people all the time? If there is predestination God already knows what they will choose so why bother in the first place? If God does make the decisions then what is the point of life?

Oh the joys of philosophy.

Again I say, read my first post in this thread. If God is all knowing (which is an admitted necessary premise for my argument), then when he made you (another necessary premise), he, by the very act of making you as he did, decided who you would be and what your will would be.

If you agree with these three premises

"Premise 1: God exists
Premise 2: God is all knowing
Premise 3: God created everything"

it is impossible to argue against predestination. At the same time this does not contradict free will, it doesn't matter that God by making you decided what your will would be, it's still your will, your mind, your decisions.

Tim p is enlightened. I'm going to start a new cult - Tim p. Tim p, Tim p - that's what we're going to chant, it'll be cool.

time is multi dimensional and goes backwards as well as forwards so you've already done what you're going to do, 'the pen is lifted and the ink is dry', premonitions are memories in disguise - huh?????????

Er, just a guess but... maybe Christianity is persistant because there was a Christ?

Nope.

Agh, I just hate "emoticons" for some reason. I don't even know why, but they make my blood boil. I find them confusing, like a wink when people are arguing? What's that ? I just find them obnoxious, like, if you want to use facial expressions, get off the computer and talk to a real person!

Eesh, sorry, I just found it amusing that there were so many fanciful reasons for the persistance of Christianity. And as strange as this is to say, I didn't make my comment because I wanted to convert you!

I agree with Morlock on all points.