Прощай

Page 2 of 2 [ 32 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2

Previous topic | Next topic

EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

29 Jun 2017, 1:45 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

If I am reading that article correctly, it's supposedly taking place in Russia. In other words the supposed paid Russian trolls are writing in Russian, not English. They are aiming their propaganda at other Russians.

And the people working in these supposed cyber sweat shops work there for a short period of time. As opposed to those who have been on WP for years.

It seems unlikely that they would be able to form an army of Russians citizens who are fluent enough in American English, slang, colloqualisms, attitues etc to pass as American, and then get them to all take a low paying job that has horrible working conditions.

We've seen how poorly scammers in non-English speaking countries imitate being an American. The spelling, diction and grammatical errors are always a dead giveaway.

So like with many claims I see being made, I can find numerous problems regarding in this one's credibility.

Now as far as I know, the OP is the only one who was going on about this. And as I and others suspected right from the start, this "new" member was actually someone who had a previous account(s) and had already been on WP for years. In other words, has zero credibility.

Remember, the article tells how the hackers are constantly under the eyes of editors, who I suspect are tied to Russian intelligence, and trained in linguistics.

So Russian intelligence has to sift through each employee of the vast army of underpaid abused trolls to make sure each one of them is getting it letter perfect?

Two words: totalitarian government.

A draconian dystopia beyond anything even Orwell could have imagined.

Quite right.

If I posted articles about how life in Russia isn't that bad, would you insist they are all false propaganda controlled by the Russian government?

Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 48,361
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

29 Jun 2017, 2:03 pm

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Remember, the article tells how the hackers are constantly under the eyes of editors, who I suspect are tied to Russian intelligence, and trained in linguistics.

So Russian intelligence has to sift through each employee of the vast army of underpaid abused trolls to make sure each one of them is getting it letter perfect?

Two words: totalitarian government.

A draconian dystopia beyond anything even Orwell could have imagined.

Quite right.

If I posted articles about how life in Russia isn't that bad, would you insist they are all false propaganda controlled by the Russian government?

During and immediately following Glasnost, and the fall of the Soviet Union, Russia wasn't that bad at all. Today under Putin, things have gotten a lot worse again.
Why the defense of Putin and Russia?

_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

29 Jun 2017, 2:29 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

If I posted articles about how life in Russia isn't that bad, would you insist they are all false propaganda controlled by the Russian government?

Questioning sentiments against Russia is not defending Putin and Russia. It's simply ascertaining whether or not the sentiments are legitimate or not. Likewise pointing out or challenging perceived errors regarding sentiments or claims about Putin and Russia is not defending Putin and Russia. The same applies to Trump.

It's a lot more about the statement itself rather than the person. If someone claimed that Osama bin Laden ate Jewish babies every night for dinner, I would challenge that claim. That doesn't make me an Osama defender or supporter. Do you get what I'm saying here?

Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 48,361
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

29 Jun 2017, 2:33 pm

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

If I posted articles about how life in Russia isn't that bad, would you insist they are all false propaganda controlled by the Russian government?

Yes, but there's no evidence to back up the Bin Laden - Jewish infant cannibalism charges. We know Putin has used cyberwarfare against other countries in order to manipulate foreign governments.

_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

29 Jun 2017, 2:50 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

If I posted articles about how life in Russia isn't that bad, would you insist they are all false propaganda controlled by the Russian government?

Yes, but there's no evidence to back up the Bin Laden - Jewish infant cannibalism charges. We know Putin has used cyberwarfare against other countries in order to manipulate foreign governments.

o has the United Sates. Now again, that's not defending Putin, it just means I'm not thinking omg what a monster he is for doing that, when I know our own presidents have done likewise.

But that's not what I'm talking about here. I'm questioning whether or not Russia is a draconian dystopia or not. You say it is. I asked you what you would say about articles I might find saying Russia isn't that bad of a place to live in.

Last edited by EzraS on 29 Jun 2017, 2:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 48,361
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

29 Jun 2017, 2:53 pm

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

If I posted articles about how life in Russia isn't that bad, would you insist they are all false propaganda controlled by the Russian government?

Yes, but there's no evidence to back up the Bin Laden - Jewish infant cannibalism charges. We know Putin has used cyberwarfare against other countries in order to manipulate foreign governments.

So has the United Sates. Now again, that's not defending Putin, it just means I'm not thinking omg what a monster he is for doing that, when I know our own presidents have done likewise.

But that's not what I'm talking about here. I'm questioning whether or not Russia is a draconian dystopia or not. You say it is. I asked you what you would say about articles I might find saying Russia isn't that bad of a place to live in.

I'd seriously take that article with a grain of salt, and perhaps even suspect that it's actually a Russian propaganda piece.
And so what if America has interfered with other countries in the past? That hardly justifies Putin's cyber-hostilities directed at us.

_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

29 Jun 2017, 3:01 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

If I posted articles about how life in Russia isn't that bad, would you insist they are all false propaganda controlled by the Russian government?

Yes, but there's no evidence to back up the Bin Laden - Jewish infant cannibalism charges. We know Putin has used cyberwarfare against other countries in order to manipulate foreign governments.

Kraichgauer wrote:

I'd seriously take that article with a grain of salt, and perhaps even suspect that it's actually a Russian propaganda piece.

Okay, that answers my question.

Kraichgauer wrote:

And so what if America has interfered with other countries in the past? That hardly justifies Putin's cyber-hostilities directed at us.

If that makes Putin a villain for doing so, then it makes our presidents villains too. It's nothing more than the pot calling the kettle black. Our presidents have been doing it a lot longer than Putin has, so one could say he got the idea from them and is just imitating what they've done. But that doesn't mean I'm defending our presidents or Putin regarding the matter.

Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 48,361
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

29 Jun 2017, 4:09 pm

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

If I posted articles about how life in Russia isn't that bad, would you insist they are all false propaganda controlled by the Russian government?

Yes, but there's no evidence to back up the Bin Laden - Jewish infant cannibalism charges. We know Putin has used cyberwarfare against other countries in order to manipulate foreign governments.

Kraichgauer wrote:

I'd seriously take that article with a grain of salt, and perhaps even suspect that it's actually a Russian propaganda piece.

Okay, that answers my question.

Kraichgauer wrote:

And so what if America has interfered with other countries in the past? That hardly justifies Putin's cyber-hostilities directed at us.

The question is, have we been manipulating the politics of other nations coverty any time recently? That's what counts.
Besides, this is your country, as well as mine. Yet I get the impression from you guys on the right that it's permissible to condemn America while excusing Russia. That would have been unthinkable to conservatives just a few years ago.

_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

29 Jun 2017, 7:09 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

The question is, have we been manipulating the politics of other nations covertly any time recently? That's what counts.
Besides, this is your country, as well as mine. Yet I get the impression from you guys on the right that it's permissible to condemn America while excusing Russia. That would have been unthinkable to conservatives just a few years ago.

How much has the US been punished for it? How many sanctions were placed against the us because of it? It could be said our hands are still dirty if we haven't paid our comeuppance. And likewise you're condemning Russia while excusing America for the same thing. When in truth neither one is excusable when you look at it objectively. One is just as guilty as the other when it comes to this. That's just reality.

Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 48,361
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

29 Jun 2017, 8:12 pm

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Does that justify Russia cyber-bombing us? Would murdering millions of Germans be justifiable because their leaders and complicit individuals had been responsible for the Holocaust?

_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

29 Jun 2017, 9:15 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Does that justify Russia cyber-bombing us?

Good grief, do actually ever read what I say? I said neither one is excusable (a synonym of justifiable).

But then again, one might say we deserved a taste of our own medicine when it comes to election tampering :wink:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Would murdering millions of Germans be justifiable because their leaders and complicit individuals had been responsible for the Holocaust?

Germany paid its comeuppance. A lot of the leaders and millions of soldiers and civilians were killed. Germany was reduced to a smoldering heap. The country was split in half. They've only recently completed repairing all the damage they received.

Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 48,361
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

29 Jun 2017, 11:22 pm

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Does that justify Russia cyber-bombing us?

Kraichgauer wrote:

Would murdering millions of Germans be justifiable because their leaders and complicit individuals had been responsible for the Holocaust?

Even if we had done questionable things in the past, that was then, this is now. And Putin is the very last person fit to school us on morality.

_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

29 Jun 2017, 11:49 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Even if we had done questionable things in the past, that was then, this is now. And Putin is the very last person fit to school us on morality.

But how much of a right do we have to vilify Russia for doing the exact same thing to us that we have done to so many others up to not all that long ago?

Quote:

The U.S. has a long history of attempting to influence presidential elections in other countries – it’s done so as many as 81 times between 1946 and 2000, according to a database amassed by political scientist Dov Levin of Carnegie Mellon University.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-us- ... story.html

Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 48,361
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

30 Jun 2017, 12:38 am

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Even if we had done questionable things in the past, that was then, this is now. And Putin is the very last person fit to school us on morality.

But how much of a right do we have to vilify Russia for doing the exact same thing to us that we have done to so many others up to not all that long ago?

Quote:

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-us- ... story.html

Because we ended up with that human Cheeto thanks to their scheming. That's more than enough reason to vilify Russia in my book.

_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

30 Jun 2017, 2:33 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Even if we had done questionable things in the past, that was then, this is now. And Putin is the very last person fit to school us on morality.

But how much of a right do we have to vilify Russia for doing the exact same thing to us that we have done to so many others up to not all that long ago?

Quote:

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-us- ... story.html

Because we ended up with that human Cheeto thanks to their scheming. That's more than enough reason to vilify Russia in my book.

Maybe it's one of those karma is a b***h things.

Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 48,361
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

30 Jun 2017, 9:48 am

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Even if we had done questionable things in the past, that was then, this is now. And Putin is the very last person fit to school us on morality.

But how much of a right do we have to vilify Russia for doing the exact same thing to us that we have done to so many others up to not all that long ago?

Quote:

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-us- ... story.html

Because we ended up with that human Cheeto thanks to their scheming. That's more than enough reason to vilify Russia in my book.

Maybe it's one of those karma is a b***h things.

No, it's one of those "strongmen sowing the seeds for other strongmen" things.

_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Page 2 of 2 [ 32 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2

Jump to:

Прощай Post Reply New Topic

Прощай