hitler or stalin

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sly279
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31 Dec 2017, 6:06 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

sly279 wrote:

Stalin even killed his own loyal supporters every so often as he trusted no one. Hitler rewarded his with promotions, women and gifts. Neither is good choice but if we can look normal and stay hidden (no aspies diagnosis back then) then we might do ok if being part of a Genocidial organization is ok.
Most his loyal supporters had some disorder. Hitler had a bunch, most of them wouldn’t been killed off by the organization if they weren’t in the organization. As a soldier or official I’d been safe for example as long as I followed orders. I wouldn’t follow Genocide ones though so I’d been killed . If I’m army then main risk would been dying in combat, though sooner or later the Genocide would have came out and I’d have to go awol and join a resistance. I’d prefer neither. But if it is one or other I’ll take my slight better chances under Hitler. Stalin hated gypsys too and Ukrainian people. He hated 20 million people and so killed them. Hitler and Stalin could been best friends if not for paranoia they both had.

Actually, the Asperger's diagnosis had been born in the heart of the Nazi Hell. Dr Hans Asperger kept his autistic subjects, who were little children who he called his "little professors," from being euthanized by the SS. His diagnosis of this group of kids became the basis of the Asperger's diagnosis. Unfortunately, as Asperger was writing about his findings in German which was not the most popular language of that time period, it took several decades later for Americans to even know what the hell Asperger's Syndrome was.

Look how many adults go undiagnosed in today’s modern times, do you really think the Nazis would dianoised adult aspies , from what I scanned the dianios of child was rather new. So I doubt most aspies would be noticed. Heck they didn’t even notice hitler or himlers disorders. Lots of people with disorders served, I would appear quite normal but shy. The Nazi party would gladly taken me for the meat grinder that was the war. They really only went after the clearly mental disorder people. Ones who couldn’t work and thus deemed a. drain on society. I don’t supoort it but I’m just saying I’d likely gone unnoticed and not even known I was aspie, heck go back 1960s and I’d probably not been diagnosed. 1940s for sure wouldn’t have. They just seen me as another shy alward guy as long as I could hold a rifle and shoot they wouldn’t have cared. Lots of shy awkward guys served in all nations militaries back then. They just got made fun of by the others.

Aristophanes
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31 Dec 2017, 8:13 am

sly279 wrote:

Aristophanes wrote:

sly279 wrote:

Might want to read up on Night of the Long Knives before speaking about Hitler's loyalty to his subordinates.

But did he purge any of his true loyal people, that was a move to gain the military loyalty. How many government purges did Stalin do? His people were so afraid to make the slight mistake. If they clapped too long or clapped too short stalin would see that as a sign of treason and have them killed. Stalin believed everyone was out to get him.

Yes, over half the people killed in the Night of the Long Knives were team Nazi. If we're arguing Stalin vs Hitler on this issue it's a wash, and you can throw in Mao too. That's because purges are a necessary mechanic of authoritarianism: eliminate any challenger, even those sympathetic to one's viewpoint, because authoritarianism is all about consolidation of power, not politics. When an autocrat assumes leadership he doesn't look at all the people below him that lifted him to that position and see 'friends', he sees possible challenges to his authority, and thus most of the inner circle must go.

ASPartOfMe
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31 Dec 2017, 11:27 am

A long slow death via seperation, ghettoization, slave labor, medical experimentation and gassing vs slow death in a frozen gulag. I am glad this choice is hypothetical.

Even if I was not Jewish I would have been different enough to be picked up as a threat by both regimes.

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Kraichgauer
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31 Dec 2017, 12:58 pm

One of those purges nearly cost Stalin everything. Following the Soviet/Nazi pack, Stalin believed so much in Hitler's sincerity that he thought he was safe enough to purge his military. Hitler took that as the perfect time to strike.

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Esmerelda Weatherwax
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31 Dec 2017, 1:37 pm

When I was younger, this gambit was frequently tried and failed.

"What would you like, brussels sprouts or broccoli?" (I happen to like both, but didn't want them at that moment.)

"Chocolate chip ice cream."

"That's not one of the choices."

"But it's what I'd like to eat."

So for me, Churchill with a side of Eisenhower, please.

;-)

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techstepgenr8tion
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31 Dec 2017, 2:42 pm

Kiprobalhato wrote:

hitler wasn't in power for as long.

I think if given the time he might have landed somewhere closer to Stalin and Mao, perhaps somewhere between them in kill count. I'm pretty satisfied that the modern world does look at them, collectively, as the three great mad men or monsters of the 20th century.

The one guy who I think deserves to be a fourth on that list, not just honorarily but that he did kill 10-20 million in the Congo, is King Leopold II of Belgium.

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funeralxempire
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31 Dec 2017, 2:57 pm

This is basically like asking 'would you prefer the extra-chunky with peanuts s**t sandwich or the drippy diarrhea sandwich'. To quote a famous American poet, Mike Muir: Suicide is an alternative.

sly279 wrote:

Both of them had paranoid streaks and turned on loyalists. Stalin is probably worse in this regard, but was also in power for longer and had slightly more reason to be paranoid. Considering the USSR had to fend off attempts at intervention from various western powers for much of it's early existence and still had to deal with attempts to undermine it's existence even after the military interventions ceased, some degree of paranoia is justified, like the (paraphrased) saying 'are you still paranoid if they really are out to get you?'

Hitler didn't specifically target autistics, but that's largely a result of Dr. Asperger's lobbying on their behalf.

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techstepgenr8tion
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31 Dec 2017, 4:17 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

To quote a famous American poet, Mike Muir: Suicide is an alternative.

And all the man asked for was a Pepsi, just one Pepsi...

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Aristophanes
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31 Dec 2017, 4:48 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

To quote a famous American poet, Mike Muir: Suicide is an alternative.

And all the man asked for was a Pepsi, just one Pepsi...

If it was a crystal clear Pepsi, suicide is preferential...

kraftiekortie
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31 Dec 2017, 7:09 pm

the simple answer to this is: neither.

CockneyRebel
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07 Jan 2018, 7:55 pm

That's like being asked whether you'd rather be raped or beaten. I'd choose neither.

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kraftiekortie
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07 Jan 2018, 9:10 pm

Schultz would have thought this was a really stupid question.

Chronos
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10 Jan 2018, 2:53 am

sly279 wrote:

Actually Hitler slaughtered the "brown shirts" who brought him to power, even as some were screaming their loyalty to him.

shlaifu
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10 Jan 2018, 7:32 pm

as meaningless as it is: I'd pick hitler.
the monstrosity of the nazi regime was just how much of a functioning state and society they had, in which regular people could have regular mundane lives, and focus on their career - as Hannah Arendt described in her Banality of evil essays in which she's dollowing the trial of Adolf Eichmann in jerusalem - a thoroughly boring guy who was working on train schedules. well, train schedules for trains that were delivering humans to concentration camps.
But the guy was remarkably boring, normal and banal-

Just like me today. I have a regular boring and mundane life, and in the back of my head, I know that the system doesn't work, the device I'm typing on contains coltan dug up in the congo by quasi-slaves with their bare hands, and assembled in china by quasi-slaves in a gigantic dehumanizing assembly plant, just like my clothing and almost everything else in my flat.

I think stalinism was much more pervading into the everyday life of the people living under stalinist rule - since stalin needed to beat russian culture out of the people and reeducate them into good communists, while the nazis were living in a culture they already had, and were afraid to lose - so they doubled down on it.

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11 Jan 2018, 11:41 am

Screwed either way.

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