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Are IQ tests mainly for the bourgeois?

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funeralxempire
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07 Jan 2018, 6:37 pm

rvacountrysinger wrote:
I sound like a liberal in my post but I'm actually a conservative. I just don't place much value on IQ tests. My grandfather was a member of MENSA. He was also a compulsive gambler who couldn't support his wife/children and ended up writing training videos for the Army. So what did he ever really accomplish in life? Nothing really.


You don't sound like a liberal so much as like a Bolshevik or a fascist, not that it would be fair to assume you're either based on agreeing with one view both ideologies are known for. Both tend to be distrustful of intellectuals, liberals not so much.

IQ tests are great at measuring how well one does on IQ tests, they're imperfect for measuring how intelligent one is but better than just assuming we're all equally capable. That said, someone with average IQ and good work ethic is likely to do better in life than someone with a high IQ and little work ethic.


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07 Jan 2018, 6:41 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
IQ tests are great at measuring how well one does on IQ tests, they're imperfect for measuring how intelligent one is but better than just assuming we're all equally capable. That said, someone with average IQ and good work ethic is likely to do better in life than someone with a high IQ and little work ethic.

While we still don't understand IQ, or why it's so difficult to alter over a person's lifetime, it does seem like its a neurological strategy, and if there's one thing I've noticed - if anyone thinks I'm wrong on this let me know because I'd like to figure out of if i's wrong - is that people with IQ's closer to median 100 seem to have a lot more mental endurance than people with high IQ. Meaning if you give a person with a high IQ an impossible task where they'll be beating their head into a brick with maybe a 5% return on effort the really intelligent person will be destroyed by that exercise whereas the the person with median IQ can beat their head on that brick, get that same 5% return, and not have their brain feel like a carton of cigarettes were lit up and put out out on it.


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07 Jan 2018, 6:49 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
rvacountrysinger wrote:
My grandfather was a member of MENSA. He was also a compulsive gambler who couldn't support his wife/children and ended up writing training videos for the Army. So what did he ever really accomplish in life? Nothing really.

This is a great example of why science hates anecdote. If one anecdote squares away your doubts and answers your questions conclusively you can stand for almost anything you've seen happen once or twice, without even checking to see if it means much on its own when compared to a much wider body of data.


I don't think RV is saying that all smart people are bad. I think he's trying to say that smart people can be bad. If that's what he's trying to say, I agree.

The questions on those IQ tests are logic puzzles for the most part. If someone is good at logic puzzles, it just means he/she is good at logic puzzles. That's literally all it means.

Perhaps some people are good when it comes to logic ... but you also need information. This universe contains mountains of information and so most people only devour a particular slice of that information.

Addionally, some smart people are too emotionally unstable to handle reality. That's why some smart people become delusional and crazy. Some people are smart enough to see reality, but not emotionally strong enough to cope with it.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GoMadFromTheRevelation

Overall, I don't think that intellectuals and tradesmen should hate one another. An ideal society is one where intellectuals and tradesmen work together and help one another. The hostility between tradesman and intellectuals is largely a product of corporate media propaganda. If the lower class and the middle class are in a perpetual state of class warfare, the upper class shall evade the hand of justice.


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07 Jan 2018, 6:56 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
IQ tests are great at measuring how well one does on IQ tests, they're imperfect for measuring how intelligent one is but better than just assuming we're all equally capable. That said, someone with average IQ and good work ethic is likely to do better in life than someone with a high IQ and little work ethic.

While we still don't understand IQ, or why it's so difficult to alter over a person's lifetime, it does seem like its a neurological strategy, and if there's one thing I've noticed - if anyone thinks I'm wrong on this let me know because I'd like to figure out of if i's wrong - is that people with IQ's closer to median 100 seem to have a lot more mental endurance than people with high IQ. Meaning if you give a person with a high IQ an impossible task where they'll be beating their head into a brick with maybe a 5% return on effort the really intelligent person will be destroyed by that exercise whereas the the person with median IQ can beat their head on that brick, get that same 5% return, and not have their brain feel like a carton of cigarettes were lit up and put out out on it.

you night not like this response but I submit it anyways- borrow from the animal world for a bit of an answer - in police work, they choose animals of medium intelligence [most often german shepherds] because smarter dogs are smart enough to know fear. so to make an analogy of that, perhaps the 100 IQ folk don't know well enough when to quit? IOW a smarter person can see from farther off, their chances of success dwindling - but a less intelligent person is not similarly clued-in to that.



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07 Jan 2018, 7:06 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
I don't think RV is saying that all smart people are bad. I think he's trying to say that smart people can be bad. If that's what he's trying to say, I agree.

He seems to be saying 'my grandpa - ergo IQ is meaningless'. That's what I'm disagreeing with.


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techstepgenr8tion
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07 Jan 2018, 7:09 pm

auntblabby wrote:
you night not like this response but I submit it anyways- borrow from the animal world for a bit of an answer - in police work, they choose animals of medium intelligence [most often german shepherds] because smarter dogs are smart enough to know fear. so to make an analogy of that, perhaps the 100 IQ folk don't know well enough when to quit? IOW a smarter person can see from farther off, their chances of success dwindling - but a less intelligent person is not similarly clued-in to that.

It could very well be that. I think I'd just need to hear a lot more high IQ people say 'Yeah, I take my best shot at simplying a task or finding the most expedient way in at it - otherwise my brain is toast'. It could just be me and how my own intelligence perhaps is built around or in response to a disability. It would be fascinating to know but, unfortunately, I don't know where I'd find that data or - sadly - who'd want to impugn their appearance of strength to admit such a thing of themselves.


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07 Jan 2018, 7:15 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
I don't think RV is saying that all smart people are bad. I think he's trying to say that smart people can be bad. If that's what he's trying to say, I agree.

He seems to be saying 'my grandpa - ergo IQ is meaningless'. That's what I'm disagreeing with.


IQ is mostly meaningless.

Let's say you are trying to become a brain surgeon. Do you show off your IQ test scores?

Of course not. Instead, you show off the degree you got from medical school.

Perhaps IQ does shape your destiny to a certain extent, but it isn't something that we should focus on as a society. I'm not speaking from the perspective of a PC liberal. I've already made it clear in the past that, although I am a liberal, I am not a hyper-sensitive PC liberal.

I'm speaking from the perspective of an employer. Employers don't care about your IQ score ... and they shouldn't.


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Last edited by DarthMetaKnight on 07 Jan 2018, 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

funeralxempire
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07 Jan 2018, 7:18 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
IQ tests are great at measuring how well one does on IQ tests, they're imperfect for measuring how intelligent one is but better than just assuming we're all equally capable. That said, someone with average IQ and good work ethic is likely to do better in life than someone with a high IQ and little work ethic.

While we still don't understand IQ, or why it's so difficult to alter over a person's lifetime, it does seem like its a neurological strategy, and if there's one thing I've noticed - if anyone thinks I'm wrong on this let me know because I'd like to figure out of if i's wrong - is that people with IQ's closer to median 100 seem to have a lot more mental endurance than people with high IQ. Meaning if you give a person with a high IQ an impossible task where they'll be beating their head into a brick with maybe a 5% return on effort the really intelligent person will be destroyed by that exercise whereas the the person with median IQ can beat their head on that brick, get that same 5% return, and not have their brain feel like a carton of cigarettes were lit up and put out out on it.


I think you might be partially on to something, but not quite. I would assume (not an educated enough guess to call it a hypothesis) that 'mental endurance' is a separate trait from IQ, and unlikely to strongly correlate. I'd love to see if your idea can be proven or disproven though.


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07 Jan 2018, 7:20 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Let's say you are trying to become a brain surgeon. Do you show off you IQ test scores?

No, you never make it into med school because you can't pass the entrance exams. No one needs to see your IQ score because it plays out in your entrance exam scores.


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07 Jan 2018, 7:44 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Let's say you are trying to become a brain surgeon. Do you show off you IQ test scores?

No, you never make it into med school because you can't pass the entrance exams. No one needs to see your IQ score because it plays out in your entrance exam scores.


How do you explain the existence of Ben Carson? The guy is an accomplished neurosurgeon ... who seems to know nothing about politics, economics, history or evolutionary biology.

See what I mean? Everyone has their own talent. Most smart people are only experts in one field.


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07 Jan 2018, 8:19 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
How do you explain the existence of Ben Carson? The guy is an accomplished neurosurgeon ... who seems to know nothing about politics, economics, history or evolutionary biology.

Well, he's clearly mentally ret*d. He disagrees with you on politics.


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07 Jan 2018, 8:22 pm

I paid $215 to learn my IQ was so scattered that any "overall" measurement would be meaningless.

Hooray for screwed-up brains.


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07 Jan 2018, 8:27 pm

us scattterbrains oughta stick together :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:



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07 Jan 2018, 8:39 pm

I think there is more than one type of intelligence. Someone might be a total dullard in daily matters, but have great artistic talent. How is that artistic intelligence to be gauged?


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07 Jan 2018, 8:41 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
I think there is more than one type of intelligence. Someone might be a total dullard in daily matters, but have great artistic talent. How is that artistic intelligence to be gauged?

spatial intelligence?



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07 Jan 2018, 9:03 pm

auntblabby wrote:
us scattterbrains oughta stick together :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:


8)


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