What's wrong with civic nationalism ?
techstepgenr8tion
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And that's why we do civic nationalism here - ie. the idea is the melting pot, when one is here regardless of race or creed they take on the supervening identity of being American and blend the best of their root culture's values with Enlightenment liberal values.
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And I believe that most immigrants do want to assimilate into the American fabric.
Nowadays, they want to also keep their cultural identity---but they admire the American Way, too. And the kids of these immigrants want an "American" identity, usually, rather than the cultural identity of the "old country."
Take the charge of facist (or Nazi, bully, troll, thug, etc...) from your enemies as compliments of the highest order.
I do
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Most Western Muslims don't want to change Western culture. They just want the freedom to live as they choose.
a sense it becomes cultural genocide. Homogenization is when people add things in, but it gets melted away over time and so it becomes collectively part of the culture without any sort of adding or taking away- hence that is part of Americanization!
If I were to go to Poland, I want to experience authentic Polish culture, cuisine, and the people of that land.
This is where your utter lack of historical knowledge is showing.
Poland has existed for thousands of years. Polish culture has changed over the years. Ancient Poland was different from prehistoric Poland. Medieval Poland was different from ancient Poland. Modern Poland is different from medieval Poland.
Let's get back to that video of Paris. Paris is massive, as all cities are. I saw plenty of authentic French things in that video.
Paris will always have authentic Parisian food and authentic Parisian culture. Let's not forget that cities are massive. In every city, there is plenty of room for both old and new things.
Addionally, I'd like to see a video of Rural France. How many Muslims live there? Europe still has rural areas. Nearly everyone in those areas is white and Christian.
In general, rural areas tend to be time capsules that reflect a country's past. This is true of every country.
Do you know why some Christians use the word "heathen" as an insult? The word refers to heath, which is a plant found in rural areas. When Christianity was spreading throughout Europe, the rural farmers held onto polytheism as Christianity was becoming popular in urban areas. Seriously. That's a fact. There were hillbillies in ancient Europe, and they thought Christianity was for city slickers.
Poland has plenty of room for foreign things and things that are uniquely Polish. The country is 312,679 square kilometers in size. That's plenty of room.
Too wrongs don't make a right.
I agree. There is plenty of racism in Africa and Asia. Unfortunately, it's hard to do something about those countries when they are so far away.
During Mugabe's reign of terror, most Americans hated his anti-white racism ... but there wasn't much they could do about it.
There is a huge difference between tolerating foreigners and expecting people to conform. In fact, they are practically opposites of one another.
I honestly don't know what your goal is. Do you think that American culture is under attack? Most Americans still love America, and enjoy things that are uniquely American. Those things aren't going away. America is full of people who have fluttering American flags on their cars. They don't face much discrimination.
Overall, your attitude towards culture seems to be overly simplistic. Cultures are complex. A big city has room for several cultures. Cultures change overtime. Modern American culture is different from the culture that existed in America back in 1776. Culture is more complex than you think it is.
If they don't want to adopt Western values and customs, then they are free to stay in their own countries. If they don't want to become Americanized, then they are not welcome,IMO. We must put America first.
I never said America was monolithic. But the truth of the matter is, those from Islamic countries, in particular, are at odds with our values, and we shouldn't change our values and culture to suit them. Rather, they need to adapt to our ways. Otherwise, they need not come here.
I'm tired of hearing people say "there's no such thing as being "Irish", or "there aren't any real Germans" ,etc. For thousands of years these people formed their own unique identity! Granted there has always been some ethnic admixture here and there, but by and large there are ethnic similarities inherent in those that have Germanic or Anglo heritage just as any other parts of the world.
Nowadays, they want to also keep their cultural identity---but they admire the American Way, too. And the kids of these immigrants want an "American" identity, usually, rather than the cultural identity of the "old country."
Years ago this was true, but I'm not really seeing this today. I'm seeing a lot of people who don't really want to be American, they just want to reap whatever benefits they can garner from living here. And this is why illegal immigration is not fair to Americans or anyone else who comes here legally.
I never said America was monolithic. But the truth of the matter is, those from Islamic countries, in particular, are at odds with our values, and we shouldn't change our values and culture to suit them. Rather, they need to adapt to our ways. Otherwise, they need not come here.
Most of these people come to the West in order to flee from ISIS.
Moving is hard. Moving to a country with a different culture and language is even harder. The average American would only move to the Middle East if America became a war zone.
You have said plenty of other things here, but these are all points that I have addressed in previous posts. I hate it when people don't listen to me and I have to repeat myself in perpetuity. Repeating yourself can be painful when you actually put effort into the points that you make.
I actually agree. There are plenty of leftists who insist that white people have no culture.
This attitude actually feeds into white supremacy, since it implies that white culture is "normal" and everything else is abnormal.
It's best to ignore people who talk like that. They're probably trolling ... or they might be suffering from schizophrenia.
This seems to back up the point that I was trying to make.
I guess we aren't as different as you thought.
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Nowadays, they want to also keep their cultural identity---but they admire the American Way, too. And the kids of these immigrants want an "American" identity, usually, rather than the cultural identity of the "old country."
Years ago this was true, but I'm not really seeing this today. I'm seeing a lot of people who don't really want to be American, they just want to reap whatever benefits they can garner from living here. And this is why illegal immigration is not fair to Americans or anyone else who comes here legally.
Fact: Mexican Immigrants do a ton of work and don't take much in terms of welfare. Deporting all those immigrants would wreck the economy.
http://immigrationimpact.com/2016/01/22/xenophobic-immigration-policy-would-wreck-the-u-s-economy/
Additionally, many of these immigrants are fleeing from the Mexican Drug War, which is has been created by the US government.
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And what exactly is our culture here? Pretty sure it is sort of a mix of a ton of different cultures, but how would you describe it? Also there are different cultures in different regions here so its not like there is really a specifically defined american culture in the first place.
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Wow; weird, huh
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The irony is your statement is that the native culture of a country much change to accommodate. When someone moves to a new country they take their beliefs and enforce it on that society, rather than the other way around? In
a sense it becomes cultural genocide. Homogenization is when people add things in, but it gets melted away over time and so it becomes collectively part of the culture without any sort of adding or taking away- hence that is part of Americanization!
If I were to go to Poland, I want to experience authentic Polish culture, cuisine, and the people of that land. I don't want to see some sort of third world in Poland. When I visit Germany- same deal. I want to experience what makes Germany authentically German. I don't see why that is a bad thing? It seems to me, that Asian countries are for all Asians, and African countries are for all Africans. But the European countries much change and become "multi cultural" - America included. That, to me , is forcing people to "conform" .
America is not a European country...
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If they don't want to adopt Western values and customs, then they are free to stay in their own countries. If they don't want to become Americanized, then they are not welcome,IMO. We must put America first.
I never said America was monolithic. But the truth of the matter is, those from Islamic countries, in particular, are at odds with our values, and we shouldn't change our values and culture to suit them. Rather, they need to adapt to our ways. Otherwise, they need not come here.
I'm tired of hearing people say "there's no such thing as being "Irish", or "there aren't any real Germans" ,etc. For thousands of years these people formed their own unique identity! Granted there has always been some ethnic admixture here and there, but by and large there are ethnic similarities inherent in those that have Germanic or Anglo heritage just as any other parts of the world.
What are these western values and customs you're referring to? you keep saying that but have yet to provide a single example of one of these values. Also as far as I can tell most muslims in america would just like to practice their freedom of religion without being harassed and accused of being terrorists or terrorist sympathizers by ignorant people when they go out shopping for instance.
Also don't think anyone's saying there is no such thing as being Irish or German, where did you get that?
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THE REAL AMERICAN'S RESPONSE UPON ENCOUNTERING A MUSLIM
Smile politely.
Give them the blessing of peace; "a'salaam alaikum".
Then defend to the death their Constitutional right to free exercise of their religion, freedom of speech, freedom of association, freedom to peaceably assemble, freedom to be secure in their person, right to due process, right to equal protection under the law, and inalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
That's not "changing our values and culture to suit them"; that's how we apply real American values and culture in practice.`
Did you know that there is a statue of Muhammed in the US Supreme Court?
http://mentalfloss.com/article/17802/how-mohammad-statue-ended-supreme-court
Just saying.
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THE REAL AMERICAN'S RESPONSE UPON ENCOUNTERING A MUSLIM
Smile politely.
Give them the blessing of peace; "a'salaam alaikum".
Then defend to the death their Constitutional right to free exercise of their religion, freedom of speech, freedom of association, freedom to peaceably assemble, freedom to be secure in their person, right to due process, right to equal protection under the law, and inalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
That's not "changing our values and culture to suit them"; that's how we apply real American values and culture in practice.`
At least 14 Muslim Americans have died "defending [OP's] freedoms" since 2001, Humayun Khan being the most well-known example. Should they not have been allowed in to begin with?
If someone really, truly wants "homogenization" and people to assimilate fully into their culture, then find a country where that has and/or is true. America is and always has been a nation of immigrants. Even the Native American's ancestors very likely came over on the hypothesized Bering Strait land bridge, but that's another topic.
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German here.
I teach at a university, and it is true, over the last five years, things have changed drastically in my lectures.
Students come from a different realm, and common cultural references are sparse.
it's however not that they're muslim immigrants. They grew up on the internet, and they are on their phones constantly. I don't get their jokes or references, and they don't get mine. They behave differently than what I was used to, and they see problems and are often incapable of doing things, and I don't even understand the problem.
I'd like to save my culture and traditions and therefore demand Americans get off the internet and stop polluting my students. Also, all foreign technology shall henceforth be banned from my student's lives, so they can grow up all nice and german.
Okay, that last paragraph was sarcasm, but it is true: Silicon Valley technology and American entertainment have significantly changed social norms, traditions and values in my country.
The 1% refugees are noticeable on the street, but that's it: occasionally, there's a brown person. so what.
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God Bless America. We are a Christian nation! God bless the Founding Fathers of our Constitution. They knew what they wanted. Thomas Jefferson didn't want Islam in America either. He fought the Barbary Pirates for good reason. And for a "diest" he certainly liked the Bible enough, considering he had it translated in 6 different languages at Monticello.
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Most Western Muslims don't want to change Western culture. They just want the freedom to live as they choose.
a sense it becomes cultural genocide. Homogenization is when people add things in, but it gets melted away over time and so it becomes collectively part of the culture without any sort of adding or taking away- hence that is part of Americanization!
If I were to go to Poland, I want to experience authentic Polish culture, cuisine, and the people of that land.
This is where your utter lack of historical knowledge is showing.
Poland has existed for thousands of years. Polish culture has changed over the years. Ancient Poland was different from prehistoric Poland. Medieval Poland was different from ancient Poland. Modern Poland is different from medieval Poland.
Let's get back to that video of Paris. Paris is massive, as all cities are. I saw plenty of authentic French things in that video.
Paris will always have authentic Parisian food and authentic Parisian culture. Let's not forget that cities are massive. In every city, there is plenty of room for both old and new things.
Addionally, I'd like to see a video of Rural France. How many Muslims live there? Europe still has rural areas. Nearly everyone in those areas is white and Christian.
In general, rural areas tend to be time capsules that reflect a country's past. This is true of every country.
Do you know why some Christians use the word "heathen" as an insult? The word refers to heath, which is a plant found in rural areas. When Christianity was spreading throughout Europe, the rural farmers held onto polytheism as Christianity was becoming popular in urban areas. Seriously. That's a fact. There were hillbillies in ancient Europe, and they thought Christianity was for city slickers.
Poland has plenty of room for foreign things and things that are uniquely Polish. The country is 312,679 square kilometers in size. That's plenty of room.
Too wrongs don't make a right.
I agree. There is plenty of racism in Africa and Asia. Unfortunately, it's hard to do something about those countries when they are so far away.
During Mugabe's reign of terror, most Americans hated his anti-white racism ... but there wasn't much they could do about it.
There is a huge difference between tolerating foreigners and expecting people to conform. In fact, they are practically opposites of one another.
I honestly don't know what your goal is. Do you think that American culture is under attack? Most Americans still love America, and enjoy things that are uniquely American. Those things aren't going away. America is full of people who have fluttering American flags on their cars. They don't face much discrimination.
Overall, your attitude towards culture seems to be overly simplistic. Cultures are complex. A big city has room for several cultures. Cultures change overtime. Modern American culture is different from the culture that existed in America back in 1776. Culture is more complex than you think it is.
If they don't want to adopt Western values and customs, then they are free to stay in their own countries. If they don't want to become Americanized, then they are not welcome,IMO. We must put America first.
I never said America was monolithic. But the truth of the matter is, those from Islamic countries, in particular, are at odds with our values, and we shouldn't change our values and culture to suit them. Rather, they need to adapt to our ways. Otherwise, they need not come here.
I'm tired of hearing people say "there's no such thing as being "Irish", or "there aren't any real Germans" ,etc. For thousands of years these people formed their own unique identity! Granted there has always been some ethnic admixture here and there, but by and large there are ethnic similarities inherent in those that have Germanic or Anglo heritage just as any other parts of the world.
Untrue. National and ethnic identities were the products of ancient, even prehistoric melting pots.
Speaking of my own ethnic group, Germans, I can say that there were no actual Germanic peoples probably prior to the Iron Age. The descendants of Ice Age hunter/gatherers who were mostly of the I haplogroup, were swamped by the Indo-European steppe nomads, today called the Linear Pottery culture of the R1a haplogroup, during the Bronze Age. Late in the Bronze Age-early Iron Age, they in turn were swamped by settlers and farmers of the Unetice Culture of central Europe, who were themselves Indo-Europeans as well, but due to genetic drift, already had developed into the R1b haplogroup. It was only then that identifiable Germanic societies emerged. And yes, there had been intermixing with other populations from time to time, particularly with the Romans in the south and west, and the Huns, Slavs and Balts in the east, enough to make south and western Germans less blond. And ethnicity had not been something that determined one being German till the rise of German nationalism in the 19th century. Rather, it was language - speaking a dialect of German - that actually determined how German one really was for most of German history.
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