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Ethnic Festival – Is this Racism?

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ltcvnzl
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14 Jun 2018, 12:42 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
ltcvnzl wrote:
i feel very weird about it coming from a very mixed place, and nobody here seems much concerned about our national culture or anything like this. for this friend, is very different. his country is very homogenous people and they have a long history on being occupied by russia, so i kind of can understand this nationalism feeling and this search/valuing for some national identity... but i can't help to feel a bit weird and uncomfortable about it. in this concert we went i mentioned, i felt very odd because it was like a party i wasn't invited, he sometimes said very negative things about russians or muslims. he also doesn't have the best opinion on homeless people, he even once said they are mostly scammers from romania or other country. i sometimes feel a bit uncomfortable, but he is a good person to me but it's all a different universe and point of view. i know he really likes those folk music and folk metal and folk things in general, but i got a bit annoyed by this festival description.


Where is he from? Moldavia? Latvia,Lithuania, or Estonia?

Its quite a contrast. Someone from the old world were they are still caught up in the local tribal hatreds with their neighbors...and then they migrate to a new land. A big sprawling brawling continental sized country like the US, or Australia, or especially like your country of Brazil, that has immigrants from all over the planet thrown together into a melting pot. Yet your friend is still fighting the fight to maintain the identity of his little ancestrial country back in the old world. But in my opinion for a person to say that "it's honor to be Irish" is fine, as long as it's not a "dishonor" NOT to be Irish. This festival may seem quaint to a Brazilian, but it may not be out and out racist.


he is from estonia.
yes, this is a huge difference i feel a lot about. i feel i also don't have a very well resolved background, so maybe i'm just recentful for people who have a definied culture and can be proud of it? i don't know.



naturalplastic
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14 Jun 2018, 1:49 pm

ltcvnzl wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
ltcvnzl wrote:
i feel very weird about it coming from a very mixed place, and nobody here seems much concerned about our national culture or anything like this. for this friend, is very different. his country is very homogenous people and they have a long history on being occupied by russia, so i kind of can understand this nationalism feeling and this search/valuing for some national identity... but i can't help to feel a bit weird and uncomfortable about it. in this concert we went i mentioned, i felt very odd because it was like a party i wasn't invited, he sometimes said very negative things about russians or muslims. he also doesn't have the best opinion on homeless people, he even once said they are mostly scammers from romania or other country. i sometimes feel a bit uncomfortable, but he is a good person to me but it's all a different universe and point of view. i know he really likes those folk music and folk metal and folk things in general, but i got a bit annoyed by this festival description.


Where is he from? Moldavia? Latvia,Lithuania, or Estonia?

Its quite a contrast. Someone from the old world were they are still caught up in the local tribal hatreds with their neighbors...and then they migrate to a new land. A big sprawling brawling continental sized country like the US, or Australia, or especially like your country of Brazil, that has immigrants from all over the planet thrown together into a melting pot. Yet your friend is still fighting the fight to maintain the identity of his little ancestrial country back in the old world. But in my opinion for a person to say that "it's honor to be Irish" is fine, as long as it's not a "dishonor" NOT to be Irish. This festival may seem quaint to a Brazilian, but it may not be out and out racist.


he is from estonia.
yes, this is a huge difference i feel a lot about. i feel i also don't have a very well resolved background, so maybe i'm just recentful for people who have a definied culture and can be proud of it? i don't know.


Interesting. Brazil is even more of a melting pot than is the US. The typical Brazilian is mixed African and European ancestry. So if you're a typical Brazilian you would have roots that are both not well documented, and those roots would be on more than one continent.

Estonia is a small country on the map. More Scandanavian in culture than Slavic, its people do jealously guard their identity against absorption into that of their big neighbor: Russia.

Estonia is kinda like Ireland, and Russia is like Britain. And both the Irish in Ireland, and Irish Americans, are famous for loving to hate Britain.

Both you and your friend might a kick out of watching the movie "The Commitments". The story of a bunch of 1980's working class youths in Dublin who start a band that does Sixties African American soul music.

For some reason this discussion reminds me of this scene from that movie.



Peacesells
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14 Jun 2018, 1:53 pm

ltcvnzl wrote:
Peacesells wrote:
ltcvnzl wrote:
i guess everyone can show up, but does everyone feels comfortable to show up?

If you are shocked and made feel uncomfortable by a common albeit a little immodest margarine advert you better stay home and let the people there have fun without anyone ruining it.
Sea Breeze wrote:
I bet it is. Racists see things irrationaly in ethnicities, which is why so many of the so-called antiracists today are really racists themselves.

What do you mean?


the margarine thing wasn't an advert, it was a comparison as their traditional culture is butter (ie. a high quality, pure culture) in contrast of nowadays culture of margarine (ie. low quality, mixed cultures). that's where i'm getting the racist vibe, because they are valuing their traditions exactly by putting it in contrast with some low quality and mixed product. coming from a mixed background, and having some issues from it, it hits an uncomfortable place for me.

i'm not planning on going as i live in the other side of the planet, but i just wanted to know if i'm getting a wrong vibe coming from a very different place or if there is really a underlaying racism/ethnocentrism.

i'm not ruining anyone's fun, i'm just pointing out something i feel uncomfortable about to people who is completely unrelated to it – exactly because i don't want to ruin anyone's fun, i don't want to tell about it to my friend and then maybe make him uncomfortable.

First off high quality and pure doesn't mean "better than yours" and these adjectives are not comparatives at all. Then the comparison with a mixed populace is absolutely non existant Imho.
Also they didn't say "Estonian are better than you are making it", they are saying "we are good at making our stuff". This is my opinion.
Many people scream racism about everything these days, it is actually nice of you to ask unrelated people about it.



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14 Jun 2018, 2:11 pm

Peacesells wrote:
Many people scream racism about everything these days...
You know it!

People have accused me of racism for...

... engaging in a conversation about racism.
... NOT engaging in a conversation about racism.
... mentioning the word "racism".
... talking about the time I was shot at by insurgents in Somalia.
... dating a white woman.
... dating a woman who was not white.
... being more qualified for a job than the sole minority person who also applied for it.
... eating fried chicken and watermelon at a church picnic.
... eating greens, grits and gravy at an Alabama diner.
... wearing a dashiki when it's hot.
... wearing a poncho when it's raining.
... admiring Venus Williams for her skill and athleticism.
... admiring Sammy Davis, Jr. for his acting, singing, and comedic talents.
... saying that Dr. William H. Cosby might be guilty.
... saying that Dr. William H. Cosby might NOT be guilty.
... voting for myself instead of Mr. Obama or his opponent (what was his name, again?)



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14 Jun 2018, 2:39 pm

Fnord wrote:
Peacesells wrote:
Many people scream racism about everything these days...
You know it!

People have accused me of racism for...

... engaging in a conversation about racism.
... NOT engaging in a conversation about racism.
... mentioning the word "racism".
... talking about the time I was shot at by insurgents in Somalia.
... dating a white woman.
... dating a woman who was not white.
... being more qualified for a job than the sole minority person who also applied for it.
... eating fried chicken and watermelon at a church picnic.
... eating greens, grits and gravy at an Alabama diner.
... wearing a dashiki when it's hot.
... wearing a poncho when it's raining.
... admiring Venus Williams for her skill and athleticism.
... admiring Sammy Davis, Jr. for his acting, singing, and comedic talents.
... saying that Dr. William H. Cosby might be guilty.
... saying that Dr. William H. Cosby might NOT be guilty.
... voting for myself instead of Mr. Obama or his opponent (what was his name, again?)

A guy I know after the election was almost brought into a fight and had his car keyed by a Latino for being white and supposedly pro-Trump. Ironically, he is a Hillary Clinton supporter. :lol:



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14 Jun 2018, 3:34 pm

Fnord wrote:
Peacesells wrote:
Many people scream racism about everything these days...
You know it!

People have accused me of racism for...

... engaging in a conversation about racism.
... NOT engaging in a conversation about racism.
... mentioning the word "racism".
... talking about the time I was shot at by insurgents in Somalia.
... dating a white woman.
... dating a woman who was not white.
... being more qualified for a job than the sole minority person who also applied for it.
... eating fried chicken and watermelon at a church picnic.
... eating greens, grits and gravy at an Alabama diner.
... wearing a dashiki when it's hot.
... wearing a poncho when it's raining.
... admiring Venus Williams for her skill and athleticism.
... admiring Sammy Davis, Jr. for his acting, singing, and comedic talents.
... saying that Dr. William H. Cosby might be guilty.
... saying that Dr. William H. Cosby might NOT be guilty.
... voting for myself instead of Mr. Obama or his opponent (what was his name, again?)


ASPartOfMe: You need to move out of the Los Angeles area. They call it LaLa land for a reason.

SJW: The prior statement is proof that you are racist against people from the Los Angeles area.

ASPartOfMe: Los Angeles is a geographical area, not a race.

SJW: That is a dog whistle to hide your racism, the LA area is heavily Mexican and minority. The towns have all these Spanish names, how do you like that MAGA snowflake?

ASPartOfMe: I did not even vote for Trump, never considered it.
I think New York pizza and bagels are better than those in LA, that is not racism that is an opinion based on experience eating those foods in both areas.

SJW: Stop triggering me. CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE, CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE, CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE, CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE, CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE, CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE, CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE, CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE, CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE, CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE, CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE, CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE, CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE, CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE, CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE ! !

So if you have not figured it out yet I think the OP is reading WAY to much into it.


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naturalplastic
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14 Jun 2018, 4:34 pm

Peacesells wrote:
ltcvnzl wrote:
Peacesells wrote:
ltcvnzl wrote:
i guess everyone can show up, but does everyone feels comfortable to show up?

If you are shocked and made feel uncomfortable by a common albeit a little immodest margarine advert you better stay home and let the people there have fun without anyone ruining it.
Sea Breeze wrote:
I bet it is. Racists see things irrationaly in ethnicities, which is why so many of the so-called antiracists today are really racists themselves.

What do you mean?


the margarine thing wasn't an advert, it was a comparison as their traditional culture is butter (ie. a high quality, pure culture) in contrast of nowadays culture of margarine (ie. low quality, mixed cultures). that's where i'm getting the racist vibe, because they are valuing their traditions exactly by putting it in contrast with some low quality and mixed product. coming from a mixed background, and having some issues from it, it hits an uncomfortable place for me.

i'm not planning on going as i live in the other side of the planet, but i just wanted to know if i'm getting a wrong vibe coming from a very different place or if there is really a underlaying racism/ethnocentrism.

i'm not ruining anyone's fun, i'm just pointing out something i feel uncomfortable about to people who is completely unrelated to it – exactly because i don't want to ruin anyone's fun, i don't want to tell about it to my friend and then maybe make him uncomfortable.

First off high quality and pure doesn't mean "better than yours" and these adjectives are not comparatives at all. Then the comparison with a mixed populace is absolutely non existant Imho.
Also they didn't say "Estonian are better than you are making it", they are saying "we are good at making our stuff". This is my opinion.
Many people scream racism about everything these days, it is actually nice of you to ask unrelated people about it.

Yes. They are saying "this is the real deal". Unadorned unadulterated Estonian folk music (made by unadulterated Estonian folks). Not some watered down pop version of it. Like ethnic foods in the grocery store. You can buy a bag of Thomas's bagels that are soft and easy to eat. But those in the know know that those are "Goy" bagels, and not the real style Jewish bagels (hard as rocks). Its like that. Not necessarily "racist".



ltcvnzl
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14 Jun 2018, 4:58 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Peacesells wrote:
ltcvnzl wrote:
Peacesells wrote:
ltcvnzl wrote:
i guess everyone can show up, but does everyone feels comfortable to show up?

If you are shocked and made feel uncomfortable by a common albeit a little immodest margarine advert you better stay home and let the people there have fun without anyone ruining it.
Sea Breeze wrote:
I bet it is. Racists see things irrationaly in ethnicities, which is why so many of the so-called antiracists today are really racists themselves.

What do you mean?


the margarine thing wasn't an advert, it was a comparison as their traditional culture is butter (ie. a high quality, pure culture) in contrast of nowadays culture of margarine (ie. low quality, mixed cultures). that's where i'm getting the racist vibe, because they are valuing their traditions exactly by putting it in contrast with some low quality and mixed product. coming from a mixed background, and having some issues from it, it hits an uncomfortable place for me.

i'm not planning on going as i live in the other side of the planet, but i just wanted to know if i'm getting a wrong vibe coming from a very different place or if there is really a underlaying racism/ethnocentrism.

i'm not ruining anyone's fun, i'm just pointing out something i feel uncomfortable about to people who is completely unrelated to it – exactly because i don't want to ruin anyone's fun, i don't want to tell about it to my friend and then maybe make him uncomfortable.

First off high quality and pure doesn't mean "better than yours" and these adjectives are not comparatives at all. Then the comparison with a mixed populace is absolutely non existant Imho.
Also they didn't say "Estonian are better than you are making it", they are saying "we are good at making our stuff". This is my opinion.
Many people scream racism about everything these days, it is actually nice of you to ask unrelated people about it.

Yes. They are saying "this is the real deal". Unadorned unadulterated Estonian folk music (made by unadulterated Estonian folks). Not some watered down pop version of it. Like ethnic foods in the grocery store. You can buy a bag of Thomas's bagels that are soft and easy to eat. But those in the know know that those are "Goy" bagels, and not the real style Jewish bagels (hard as rocks). Its like that. Not necessarily "racist".


this approach makes sense. thanks, i couldn't see it at first.



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15 Jun 2018, 6:08 am

Peacesells wrote:
ltcvnzl wrote:
i guess everyone can show up, but does everyone feels comfortable to show up?

If you are shocked and made feel uncomfortable by a common albeit a little immodest margarine advert you better stay home and let the people there have fun without anyone ruining it.
Sea Breeze wrote:
I bet it is. Racists see things irrationaly in ethnicities, which is why so many of the so-called antiracists today are really racists themselves.

What do you mean?
They were celebrating that they were apart of a specific ethnicity or something like that, which shows that they are defining themselves after their ethnicity or race, which shows that they are racists. Defining a person or a group of people after their ethnicity or race is the definition of racism. The second part of my post was an example of what I said in the first half.



naturalplastic
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15 Jun 2018, 6:26 am

Sea Breeze wrote:
Peacesells wrote:
ltcvnzl wrote:
i guess everyone can show up, but does everyone feels comfortable to show up?

If you are shocked and made feel uncomfortable by a common albeit a little immodest margarine advert you better stay home and let the people there have fun without anyone ruining it.
Sea Breeze wrote:
I bet it is. Racists see things irrationaly in ethnicities, which is why so many of the so-called antiracists today are really racists themselves.

What do you mean?
They were celebrating that they were apart of a specific ethnicity or something like that, which shows that they are defining themselves after their ethnicity or race, which shows that they are racists. Defining a person or a group of people after their ethnicity or race is the definition of racism. The second part of my post was an example of what I said in the first half.


No. Actually that is not the definition of "racism". Racism is hating another person simply because you define that other person as belonging to another race.

By your definition any American who celebrates Independence Day, or any Brit who celebrates a royal wedding, or any Irish American who wears green on St. Patrick's Day would be being a "racist" because the said people are celebrating being part of a nationality/ethnicity.



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15 Jun 2018, 8:19 am

Sea Breeze wrote:
Peacesells wrote:
ltcvnzl wrote:
i guess everyone can show up, but does everyone feels comfortable to show up?

If you are shocked and made feel uncomfortable by a common albeit a little immodest margarine advert you better stay home and let the people there have fun without anyone ruining it.
Sea Breeze wrote:
I bet it is. Racists see things irrationaly in ethnicities, which is why so many of the so-called antiracists today are really racists themselves.

What do you mean?
They were celebrating that they were apart of a specific ethnicity or something like that, which shows that they are defining themselves after their ethnicity or race, which shows that they are racists. Defining a person or a group of people after their ethnicity or race is the definition of racism. The second part of my post was an example of what I said in the first half.

Hey Captain Sweden, they were just making a festival about their culture and peacefully sharing it with other people. Stop throwing grave accusations at innocent people without a reason, this is a very serious matter and if you keep on you should be punished.



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15 Jun 2018, 8:32 am

I like 'ethnic' festivals, provided that they are not merely excuses to disseminate racist or sexist propaganda (e.g., "We're the best -- the rest of you suck").

In my community, I have attended festivals celebrating Greek/Macedonian culture, Mexican culture, German culture ... so many more. They are great opportunities to meet new people, try new foods, learn new dances, and generally have a good time.

It's those fascist jerks who try to hassle the attendees with their claims of racism and discrimination that bother me -- they seem to be hostile toward anyone who would peacefully celebrate and share their ethnic culture in a friendly manner, and with anyone who has an open mind.

Ethnic festivals are not racist unless they are not merely excuses to disseminate racist or sexist propaganda.



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15 Jun 2018, 8:37 am

They also teach people about other cultures, too.



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15 Jun 2018, 11:04 am

What about people who don’t eat butter because of health reasons, or because it goes against religious dietary laws?

(Whether or not they use it like Marlon Brando did in Last Tango in Paris is another matter)


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Peacesells
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15 Jun 2018, 12:14 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
What about people who don’t eat butter because of health reasons, or because it goes against religious dietary laws?

(Whether or not they use it like Marlon Brando did in Last Tango in Paris is another matter)

What about these people?



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15 Jun 2018, 12:37 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
What about people who don’t eat butter because of health reasons, or because it goes against religious dietary laws?

(Whether or not they use it like Marlon Brando did in Last Tango in Paris is another matter)


They will just have to suck it up, and accept being margarine-alized!