What will be the future of politics after Trump?

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Actually they do get called Uncle Toms and sellouts, regularly, when they go against or criticize the voting block and I think the Democratic party has given them such thin gruel for being their 'only go-to party that isn't dancing around in white sheets' that they're starting to sense that it's grown to be a somewhat cynical relationship. Many of them, as you said millenials largely with some noted gen x and boomers, are more independent. If they're Hoteps they may tend more libertarian, and I can think of at least a handful of conservatives across Youtube who'd be as at home on Tucker Carlson's show as anywhere else.

The point I was making - the Democrats are serving too many masters. For example in so many ways they help the black community with education at the expense of the teachers union. If they find themselves losing consistently they'll have to actually get lean, start having plans that are more in line with helping the urban poor and doing so in ways that do better to insure not just equal opportunity but increasing numbers of people in the US leaving poverty. When they run things with name-calling and 'we're not them' they lose efficacy and it doesn't help the people they're supposed to be helping.

Be wary of those on youtube. As minorities we know that the far right love it when minorities repeat their talking points since so few do. We also know supply and demand, that repeating their talking points can get us fast attention. Plus, once that attention is got it’s beyond easy to monetize it. Many, not all, of those on youtube also have pages where people can “pay them for their services” or buy “merchandise” from them which is the give away. In other words, as a minority - it’s an easy get rich scheme. Are all that way (in it for the money)? No. Are many? Yep. I could technically do it and earn a lot of money since I’ve seen how these enterprises are set up, but personally/morally can’t.

Last edited by Spooky_Mulder on 17 Jun 2018, 10:23 am, edited 3 times in total.

This is why the Nordic Model needs to win.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZJKC0CWk2A

62% of Americans want universal health care.

"Universal health care is anti-American!"

I guess most Americans are "anti-American" then.

Anyone who says "socialized healthcare is anti-American" might as well be saying "The French Revolution was anti-French" or "The Russian serf riots were anti-Russian!"

By the way, American democracy was inspired by the democracy of the Roman Republic. America has taken inspiration from other countries already. Copying Nordic healthcare wouldn't be uniquely "unpatriotic".

These narratives are awful and pernicious though. They put group ownership of an idea or group association of an idea far above the actual logical value of the idea itself. For example there are a handful of loons in some places decrying that the scientific endeavor is inherently white and racist, they're probably not of an important quantity but they exist. If in some provisional future the tables turned and it was the right who was pro-science for a mix of pragmatic and race realist reasons (depending on the given person's moral compass) and the left became adamantly against science because any progress in their mind offered a window into suggestions of IQ inequality that just couldn't be tolerated under an egalitarian system - would it be the right thing to be adamantly against science because yes, a few racists will misuse it for white identitarian reasons in that case or would the correct moral stance be to stand up for what science actually is and adamanantly stand against the racist application or de-nuancing of scientifically derived statistics?

This is where I think I'm of one mind with Sam Harris on all of the things that bother me about this. Facts are facts, we have to know the world we live in and then work within a tolerable moral framework that actually takes human beings in general to a better place with respect to freedom, quality of life, and longevity of the environment.

That said - there are plenty of reasons for minorities to not be happy with the Democratic party, and the best way I can describe it in short is that yes - it helps them, but the cost is being something like the political equivalent of Munchhausen's by proxy. Bret Weinstein was on Joe Rogan's podcast recently talking about how he couldn't understand, for the longest time, how there could be any significant number of African Americans who identified as Republican or conservative, but after Evergreen they started giving him invitations to speaking events and what he found out about them, and they have a lot in common with Kanye here, is they're people who are sick of being told that they're of a victim class and they feel stifled by what they consider the tyranny of low expectations as well as being policed or constantly coached on what their beliefs about reality need to be.

To add to that last point - I also notice that there may very well be a rift growing in the African American experience, to the extent that there are people like Lil Wayne who'd say they've never experienced racism, they marvel at most of their audience being white, and when they sit down with someone else on TV who went through it they listen with concern but they have to admit that they haven't had the same experience. I think to that extent the degree of African Americans who are going their own way politically is really a sign of just how much progress has been made against racism.

I fully understand that there are whole generations who grew up in poverty before the 60's, then the incentive structure of the Great Society destroyed the nuclear families (something Daniel Patrick Moynihan saw, waved the warning flag on, and it deeply damaged his career), and I find myself largely in agreement with a lot of those videos on Youtube where people start a relay race and move everyone forward from the starting line based on privilege - it's real and it's a problem. I think where classic Democrats vs. more libertarian thinkers vary on this is not whether or not oppression and inequality are real, but what to do about it.

As stated, not all. But, the ones that are typically touted off and shown around are.

For example, Diamond and Silk who right wingers love and Fox News show a lot took money from an actual white supremacist Paul Nehlan. That? Is an obvious financial venture. Both Nehlan and Trump paid them off if not undisclosed more.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/di ... fd7fc9a78b

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/04/flashb ... -neo-nazi/

Are all like that? Never stated that. Are the ones that attach links to “pay me” sites and merchandise looking to become a celebrity based alone on talking white nationalist points? That’s suspect and people have been caught doing it. The real ones (and they exist) don’t come forward asking for a form of payment.

As a minority myself, Establishment Democrats hold minorities hostage basically since the other side is worse/scarier.

Actually I read this a little differently. I look for instance at Candace Owens and think sure - she's quick-witted, attractive, does well in conversations, and like a lot of Youtubers who came to prominence (Carl Benjamin/Sargon comes to mind here as well) she didn't get on the news for having a phD or professorship anywhere or for having been a senator or representative. I'd add with her, something that I can't say about Sargon, ComputingForever, Karen Straughan, or a lot of other Youtube skeptic celebs - she actually has been all over the network media and on Fox News a fair amount. That extra vault is, as you said, has more to do with her externalities being an unusual match for her political persuasion.

I think it says a lot about how strange things are, and really in an unhealthy way, if one can become famous for being minority and coming out as center-right.


I'd say 'elements' of the other side are scarier. It seems like when I do meet people who are genuinely racist they're generally rustic/rural, their politics may or may not be Republican, and you do have your urban rednecks who are cut of similar psychological cloth. Most people in the suburbs I meet - whether they're sporting Republican or Democrat political promo stickers on their car, tend to agree equally that racism is bad. I regularly grab lunch at work in a predominantly black middle class area and I don't see much skin-consciousness at all, which also I think suggests to me that there is a lot of economic impetus behind the issues.

I get that a lot of the better world I see is the progress of left-leaning politics, and I appreciate the accomplishments as such. My big concern is that both parties - Republicans and Democrats - have really dropped their standards and it seems like with the current culture the left is even in more trouble than the right. I think Jordan Peterson nails this one in that people right of center can circumscribe the freaks pretty easily - ie. they're people who believe in ethnic superiority, and once a person's gone that way they're taking part in the nature of the Sith. On the left it's harder to call when a person's crossed the line from a bit clueless and historically illiterate to Leninist/Stalinist/Maoist. Why this hadn't blown up full-stop for the left yet in the past several decades I'd have to attribute to social media as it creates an echo chamber, shows how obnoxious the ignorant fringes of both sides can get, and it emboldens people in public positions who were already a bit strange to get stranger. There's also been a strange shift since the 80's of helicopter parenting, then perhaps overblown or poorly applied responses to school shootings and bullying which damaged people's social skills and resilience, thus for a lot of reasons our culture's getting a lot more tribal and reality-bubbled than it has in recent memory. Having a proper functioning left and right is critical to not just America but the entire west's well being and I'd say the same for any party equivalences anywhere else.

Obama bombed 7 countries. He bombed Pakistan after three days in office. He destroyed Libya, supporting Al Qaeda there and in Syria.

It's working everybody! It's working!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em2UMovWVtg

LIVE. TO. WIN.

If I remember you complained trump was being agrressive towards Kim, now trump does what you want and you hate him for it too. If obama did it you’d probably be praising him and demanding he get another peace prize for brining peace to Asia. I like yo but honestly you just seem to hate trump for no reason other then he’s not a democrat liberal.
Do you want war or peace with Korea? You were for peace now you’re for war cause it’s trump who made the move to peace 0.o

Where was you digust when obama worked with Iran who claims the holocaust is a western propaganda?

Candace Owens is another highly dubious one. She’s a far leftist prior to Trump then suddenly she becomes far right within a very short time span? I’m not buying it. We’re rigid thinkers, but so are NTs to a degree. A full 180 is unheard of usually unless something is motivating it - right when she did she suddenly got celebrity status.

Again this isn’t to say they’re all that way, but some raise red flags.

Not all Republicans are bad. My family is mostly liberal Republicans and so is my Dad. They’ve been basically forced to vote Democrat the past couple presidential elections due to how far right Republicans have gone. That’s why I like to think of it more as liberal and conservative since Dem and Rep could be either of those.

Well, Trump got the guy known for not keeping promises to make a vague promise. Yippie!

Ah well, in about six months it might not work out and since Trump wouldn’t want us to know that - he’ll just lie to us. (His words, not mine).

The way it actually happened seems coherent though.

The first half of her story was in her high school years when she got prank calls from a pissed off and drunk gay friend with three of his friends, they were heavily racial in their content, a conversation came up in one of her classes and she brought up the prank calls at which point the teacher marched her off to the principle's office, had her replay the voicemails, and before long it was all over the news, the NAACP descended on the town, it turned out that one of the four boys was the state governor's son and so it took on another layer of politics. The lives of the guys involved were wrung out and she had anorexia for five or six years through college as a means to try and reassert her sense of control over her own life.

That didn't make her leave the left but it made her already a bit brittle and atypical in her view of things because she saw how nasty of a tornado tore through her life and the life of her friend.

The next big event was her setting up a fundraiser for anti-bullying software meant to demask trolls. A lot of people have said that this was a bad idea, that it could have given pedophiles a great line in to stalk and locate targets, it never got far enough for it to become an issue. She got a very strange call from Zoey Quinn, head of security over at Twitter telling her to take it down, that she'd 'ruin everything', that she'd be getting a massive bank of trolls harassing her within a few hours if she didn't remove the Kickstarter (which had at this point been up for a few weeks and so far hardly a peep out of anyone on it). She said thanks but no thanks and two hours later a whole flood of obviously fake email addresses with 'trump', 'whiteguy', or whatever else came through her email box - delivered as promised. She made a comment somewhere that Zoey seemed to be trolling her, that she probably was trolling herself as well, and that's when the media jumped all over her, the second hurricane/tornado in her life, because she'd single-handedly reopened the casket on Gamergate.

Through all of that time the left was twisting anything she said, she eventually started recording her interviews and telling people to take their hit-pieces down, which they realized they had to when she could verify the articles were near whole-cloth fabrication. Who actually reported her story accurately? Right-of-center news sources.

For me at least that sounds like a pretty extreme and angular set of experiences, and if she found that conservatives were fair and clear thinking and she could have a conversation and that the those on the left she ran into reacted to her like lunatics or like racketeers dealing with a whistleblower - it's no wonder she went conservative.

I never wanted Trump to compliment him and put on a big spectacle to legitimatize him. I would have been pissed if Obama was praising Kim as well but Obama did not do that.

Also no that is not why I hate Trump, I mostly hate him because he is a threat to the environment and our remaining wilderness. He failed to condemn white supremacists, even stated some are 'very fine people' so he's very flimsy when it comes to condemning white supremacy. Also he had tons of children kidnapped from their parents and is holding them in concentration camps...these people did not even cross illegally they came to the border and asked for asylum, that's not illegal.

Also you seem to think I am some kind of Obama worshiper or something, I don't think he was that terribly great...better than Trump, but yeah I think he was too flimsy on some issues and he didn't follow through with universal healthcare, the Obamacare thing was a bit disappointing. And did Obama praise the leader of Iran, put our flag up next to the Iran flag and put on a big spectale with him like Trump did with Kim?

And no I don't want war, I just don't think all the praise Trump gave to kim was necessary for peace...I mean he has no problem praising Kim and being all smiles in pictures with him, but then he insults the leader of Canada one of our allies, and is refusing to work with our allies on climate change? Smiles and praise for Kim and Putin, refusing to work with and insulting our allies.

That may be for Candace, but why not take up just a fight against left wing news sources then? Rather than left wing news AND white nationalist ideology ontop of that? That’d explain the news angle, but not the white nationalism aspect to me.

You seem to be taking for granted that we know what you mean by something - where I don't, and I'm not so sure anyone else reading this does.

What is the white nationalism that Candace has taken on board in her personal or public philosophy?

I’d say these may be some of her views that have been labeled that way. I am only vaguely familiar with her through how I hear black activists referring to her. I’d say it’s what’s in this link and more though -

https://www.complex.com/pop-culture/201 ... ump-savior