Page 2 of 4 [ 59 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

sly279
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 16,181
Location: US

03 Jul 2018, 12:22 pm

Meanwhile China is taking over the pacific and building whole islands to house military forces for invasions and liberals are like China is communist we love China. China who’s tried to secretly buy our power grids, hack our military, they tried to instal chips into military equipment, they threaten to shoot down any planes that fly in the Asian sea. War will come from China first. They claim all the water up to Japan’s, Vietnam, Philippines etc beaches, they actively ignore the United Nations international waters laws they signed. So when they shot down, or invade and kill Japanese’s citizens and troops or Philippines citizens or troops, and war breaks out like China wants, will the left still love them as the hammer out west coasts?



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

03 Jul 2018, 12:40 pm

American liberals don't "love" China. They just want to coexist pragmatically with China.

Engaging in a trade war with China----or with Canada---is not smart policy.



The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 42
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,123
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

03 Jul 2018, 12:56 pm

Image



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 70
Gender: Male
Posts: 35,189
Location: temperate zone

03 Jul 2018, 2:12 pm

sly279 wrote:
Meanwhile China is taking over the pacific and building whole islands to house military forces for invasions and liberals are like China is communist we love China. China who’s tried to secretly buy our power grids, hack our military, they tried to instal chips into military equipment, they threaten to shoot down any planes that fly in the Asian sea. War will come from China first. They claim all the water up to Japan’s, Vietnam, Philippines etc beaches, they actively ignore the United Nations international waters laws they signed. So when they shot down, or invade and kill Japanese’s citizens and troops or Philippines citizens or troops, and war breaks out like China wants, will the left still love them as the hammer out west coasts?


Don't know where you get that Dems differ from the GOP in being fearful of China.

The dividing line on the issue is not between Dems and the GOP, but between Trump on one hand, and everyone else (Republican and Democrat) on the other.

Trump wants us to abandon our bases on the far side of the Pacific rim. While both the Dems and the rest of the GOP (every Republican who isn't named Trump) wants us stay there to keep China at arm's length from our shores.

Oddly enough Trump's one area of continuity with Obama was courting Vietnam. Vietnam is a natural Pacific rim potential ally to help contain China (along with Japan. S.Korea, and the Phillipines). Obama courted them to be that ally, Trump also sucked up to them on his recent trip ,but it was probably the right thing for the wrong reason (Vietnam is an historic ally of Russia and Putin probably ordered Trump to be nice to Vietnam).



JohnPowell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2016
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,806
Location: Palestine

03 Jul 2018, 3:09 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Meanwhile China is taking over the pacific and building whole islands to house military forces for invasions and liberals are like China is communist we love China. China who’s tried to secretly buy our power grids, hack our military, they tried to instal chips into military equipment, they threaten to shoot down any planes that fly in the Asian sea. War will come from China first. They claim all the water up to Japan’s, Vietnam, Philippines etc beaches, they actively ignore the United Nations international waters laws they signed. So when they shot down, or invade and kill Japanese’s citizens and troops or Philippines citizens or troops, and war breaks out like China wants, will the left still love them as the hammer out west coasts?


Don't know where you get that Dems differ from the GOP in being fearful of China.

The dividing line on the issue is not between Dems and the GOP, but between Trump on one hand, and everyone else (Republican and Democrat) on the other.

Trump wants us to abandon our bases on the far side of the Pacific rim. While both the Dems and the rest of the GOP (every Republican who isn't named Trump) wants us stay there to keep China at arm's length from our shores.

Oddly enough Trump's one area of continuity with Obama was courting Vietnam. Vietnam is a natural Pacific rim potential ally to help contain China (along with Japan. S.Korea, and the Phillipines). Obama courted them to be that ally, Trump also sucked up to them on his recent trip ,but it was probably the right thing for the wrong reason (Vietnam is an historic ally of Russia and Putin probably ordered Trump to be nice to Vietnam).


It was an ally of the Soviet Union. Russia now is not the Soviet Union. Putin isn't controlling the world and Trump. Please try to get with reality.


_________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"


JohnPowell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2016
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,806
Location: Palestine

03 Jul 2018, 3:11 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
With Putin influencing Trump to pull out of NATO, I think it's obvious he want to ultimately expand Russian influence to the Atlantic. Whether that's a military invasion, or simply establishing increasingly right wing Strongman regimes to replace democratic governments in western and central Europe remains to be seen. I'm more likely to err on the side of the latter, though neither option is acceptable.


:lmao: :lmao:


_________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"


kokopelli
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Nov 2017
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,399
Location: amid the sunlight and the dust and the wind

03 Jul 2018, 3:54 pm

sly279 wrote:
Meanwhile China is taking over the pacific and building whole islands to house military forces for invasions and liberals are like China is communist we love China. China who’s tried to secretly buy our power grids, hack our military, they tried to instal chips into military equipment, they threaten to shoot down any planes that fly in the Asian sea. War will come from China first. They claim all the water up to Japan’s, Vietnam, Philippines etc beaches, they actively ignore the United Nations international waters laws they signed. So when they shot down, or invade and kill Japanese’s citizens and troops or Philippines citizens or troops, and war breaks out like China wants, will the left still love them as the hammer out west coasts?


Don't forget that through North Korea, they are working overtime to reduce opposing military capabilities in the area. They are already having us cancel joint war games in the area.



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 48,732
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

03 Jul 2018, 4:02 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
With Putin influencing Trump to pull out of NATO, I think it's obvious he want to ultimately expand Russian influence to the Atlantic. Whether that's a military invasion, or simply establishing increasingly right wing Strongman regimes to replace democratic governments in western and central Europe remains to be seen. I'm more likely to err on the side of the latter, though neither option is acceptable.


:lmao: :lmao:


As if Putin hasn't been working on destabilizing western democracies by supporting anti-democratic nationalists already.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Arthropod
Hummingbird
Hummingbird

User avatar

Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 20
Location: Poland

03 Jul 2018, 4:14 pm

thinkinginpictures wrote:
With Poland, I suspect Russia is trying to overthrow the Polish democracy through use of diplomatic relations - after all Putin has a lot in common with the current Polish government, as the Polish government is very un-democratic, authoritarian and very reactionary in nature.

When Russian influence is firmly established in Poland


This is absolutely not true. Current government in Poland (Law and Justice party) won elections democratic way and has electoral support. I voted for them too. Not because I like this party (becouse I dont, they did many things I hate), but because alternative (Civic Platform party) was significantly worse. About previous, so caled "democratic" government of Civic Platform there is long list of scandals involving gigantic scale corruption, ballot-rigging and suspicious deaths ("suicides" and car crashes) of people who knew something uncomfortable to government. Of course this government wos supported both by court judgements (so, so called "democratic" government of Civic Platform worked more like mafia than political party) and tremendous media propaganda (which unfortunately Law and Justice partially took over after they won elections instead of turning it off, so now we have crazy situation when diferent media show situation completely oposite way and stay silent about very diferent facts and all of them are absolutely untrustworthy). But when Civic Platform lost election, they used every possible way including public denigration of their political oponents in foreign media in hope other nations would introduce sanctions for their country. Unfortunately German government clearly supports Civic Platform and helps to put about these denigration, which is not very surprising as votes from politicans of this party proved to be easy to buy by bribes and Civic Platform politicians repeatedly voted against their nation and citzens.
So really calling our current government un-democratic is just stupid. When there was just mafia in charge of Polish government, they called it "democratic". Well I hate politics. It is nothing but lies.

Also Law and Justice party leader, Jarosław Kaczyński absolutely hates Putin, which is not mystery. In year 2010 his brother (Lech Kaczyński, who was President Of Poland then) died in plane crash in Russia and russian investigation about this crash was so obvious cover-up, that it is quite possible that it was not an accident but assassination (it is good to note that beside president also many very high ranking officers of polish army died in the same crash and there is serious suspicion that some classified documents of NATO was stolen by russians from that plane wreck). There is no way current government would ever get together with Putin.



JohnPowell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2016
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,806
Location: Palestine

03 Jul 2018, 4:17 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
With Putin influencing Trump to pull out of NATO, I think it's obvious he want to ultimately expand Russian influence to the Atlantic. Whether that's a military invasion, or simply establishing increasingly right wing Strongman regimes to replace democratic governments in western and central Europe remains to be seen. I'm more likely to err on the side of the latter, though neither option is acceptable.


:lmao: :lmao:


As if Putin hasn't been working on destabilizing western democracies by supporting anti-democratic nationalists already.


And what's the evidence for that? Nothing. Everyone is enjoying the Russian world cup and all the pre propaganda has fallen apart. No one is buying these fairy tales anymore.


_________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"


Peacesells
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Sep 2014
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,915
Location: Anzio, Italy

03 Jul 2018, 4:20 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
With Putin influencing Trump to pull out of NATO, I think it's obvious he want to ultimately expand Russian influence to the Atlantic. Whether that's a military invasion, or simply establishing increasingly right wing Strongman regimes to replace democratic governments in western and central Europe remains to be seen. I'm more likely to err on the side of the latter, though neither option is acceptable.


:lmao: :lmao:


As if Putin hasn't been working on destabilizing western democracies by supporting anti-democratic nationalists already.

People say that about my country too but the crude reality is just that people here are legitimately not happy with the left. It's no Soviet conspiracy.



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 48,732
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

03 Jul 2018, 7:12 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
With Putin influencing Trump to pull out of NATO, I think it's obvious he want to ultimately expand Russian influence to the Atlantic. Whether that's a military invasion, or simply establishing increasingly right wing Strongman regimes to replace democratic governments in western and central Europe remains to be seen. I'm more likely to err on the side of the latter, though neither option is acceptable.


:lmao: :lmao:


As if Putin hasn't been working on destabilizing western democracies by supporting anti-democratic nationalists already.


And what's the evidence for that? Nothing. Everyone is enjoying the Russian world cup and all the pre propaganda has fallen apart. No one is buying these fairy tales anymore.


The House Intelligence Committee certainly thinks there was collusion with Russia, which includes Trump allies.
There has been plenty of intelligence reports supporting the accusation that Russia has been supporting right wing nationalists in European and American elections, because Putin expects them to show their gratitude while weakening the western military and trade alliances.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


glebel1
Raven
Raven

Joined: 12 Jun 2018
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 115
Location: Frazier Park, Ca.

03 Jul 2018, 7:21 pm

sly279 wrote:
Meanwhile China is taking over the pacific and building whole islands to house military forces for invasions and liberals are like China is communist we love China. China who’s tried to secretly buy our power grids, hack our military, they tried to instal chips into military equipment, they threaten to shoot down any planes that fly in the Asian sea. War will come from China first. They claim all the water up to Japan’s, Vietnam, Philippines etc beaches, they actively ignore the United Nations international waters laws they signed. So when they shot down, or invade and kill Japanese’s citizens and troops or Philippines citizens or troops, and war breaks out like China wants, will the left still love them as the hammer out west coasts?

Yeah, they have positioned themselves very well to interdict one of the major sealanes in the world.
If you ask me, laying down the law on trade should have happened 20 years ago.
Hopefully they can be at least slowed down.


_________________
I reserve the right to ignore the ignorant.


kokopelli
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Nov 2017
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,399
Location: amid the sunlight and the dust and the wind

04 Jul 2018, 12:49 am

JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
With Putin influencing Trump to pull out of NATO, I think it's obvious he want to ultimately expand Russian influence to the Atlantic. Whether that's a military invasion, or simply establishing increasingly right wing Strongman regimes to replace democratic governments in western and central Europe remains to be seen. I'm more likely to err on the side of the latter, though neither option is acceptable.


:lmao: :lmao:


As if Putin hasn't been working on destabilizing western democracies by supporting anti-democratic nationalists already.


And what's the evidence for that? Nothing. Everyone is enjoying the Russian world cup and all the pre propaganda has fallen apart. No one is buying these fairy tales anymore.


Yours is the fairy tale. And unfortunately for the civilized people of Earth, far too many idiots believe those fairy tales.



sly279
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 16,181
Location: US

04 Jul 2018, 2:14 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
American liberals don't "love" China. They just want to coexist pragmatically with China.

Engaging in a trade war with China----or with Canada---is not smart policy.

Cause all they do is sit around making up lies about Russia rigging everything while we know China hacks us. When China takes land they do it in their uniforms proudly and no one cares, but Russia tries to hide it and the left demands action,
Why ? Russia and China are close allies, so why favor one and hate the other?



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 70
Gender: Male
Posts: 35,189
Location: temperate zone

04 Jul 2018, 5:27 am

JohnPowell wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Meanwhile China is taking over the pacific and building whole islands to house military forces for invasions and liberals are like China is communist we love China. China who’s tried to secretly buy our power grids, hack our military, they tried to instal chips into military equipment, they threaten to shoot down any planes that fly in the Asian sea. War will come from China first. They claim all the water up to Japan’s, Vietnam, Philippines etc beaches, they actively ignore the United Nations international waters laws they signed. So when they shot down, or invade and kill Japanese’s citizens and troops or Philippines citizens or troops, and war breaks out like China wants, will the left still love them as the hammer out west coasts?


Don't know where you get that Dems differ from the GOP in being fearful of China.

The dividing line on the issue is not between Dems and the GOP, but between Trump on one hand, and everyone else (Republican and Democrat) on the other.

Trump wants us to abandon our bases on the far side of the Pacific rim. While both the Dems and the rest of the GOP (every Republican who isn't named Trump) wants us stay there to keep China at arm's length from our shores.

Oddly enough Trump's one area of continuity with Obama was courting Vietnam. Vietnam is a natural Pacific rim potential ally to help contain China (along with Japan. S.Korea, and the Phillipines). Obama courted them to be that ally, Trump also sucked up to them on his recent trip ,but it was probably the right thing for the wrong reason (Vietnam is an historic ally of Russia and Putin probably ordered Trump to be nice to Vietnam).


It was an ally of the Soviet Union. Russia now is not the Soviet Union. Putin isn't controlling the world and Trump. Please try to get with reality.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Serbia was allied to Russia when Russia was under the Czars, and the two nations are still allies today.

Assad's daddy was an ally of the USSR, and Assad continues the alliance with the modern Russian Republic. Geography forces Russia and Vietnam to be natural allies against China. Both Vietnam and Syria kept their ties with Moscow despite the fact that the smaller "Soviet Socialist Republics" all broke away from the Russian Republic that was the ruling shank of the USSR. Never said Putin controlled "the world".