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sly279
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30 Dec 2018, 5:00 am

shlaifu wrote:
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I feel the same way about Japan too. I'm glad that both countries were able to eventually rebuild after the war


uhm... take a look at the way japan is dealing with its war crimes .... I'm not sure if they learn much about the rape of Nanjing in school, in the way germans get treated to holocaust documentaries from age 12 or so.

I saw paintings showing the massacre in the Chinese national gallery, but nothing speaking about the things the Japanese did when I was in Japan. - yes, atomic bomb memorials, but these are museums for the atrocities someone else inflicted on them. Not museums of how awful they have been to others.
they have this shrine for kamikaze pilots, which the prime minister visits every year... Imagine Angela Merkel visiting a chapel dedicated to SS troops .... imagine such a chapel even existing!

And ... Japan has the world's 4th most powerful army, and the world's 8th largest defense budget (says wikipedia).


They honor mass killers and war crimals on their holidays.
They say the death marches didn’t happen. They didn’t kill pows, they didn’t murder millions of Chinese. One of their past leaders tried to apologize for raping of Korean and Chinese women but go flak so claimed they were paid service workers.
I dont know about all Japanese nit the government and most it seems feel everything done in Ww2 was fine or wiped clean cause we nuked them.
Mind you regular bombing killed way more people.

“According to the US Strategic Bombing Survey, conventional bombing of the Japanese home islands killed 330,000 Japanese civilians and wounded 476,000.

In the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the USSBS estimated that 125,000 Japanese civilians and soldiers were killed and 130,000 to 160,000 were injured.[1]

The great majority of Japanese civilians were killed and wounded between February 3, 1945 and August 14, 1945, when the US developed and perfected low level incendiary bombing of Japanese cities.

The conventional raid on Tokyo on the night of March 9, 1945 killed and wounded 185,000, more than either the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki alone, and quite possibly more than the two combined; some estimates for the Tokyo raid range as high as 300,000 dead and wounded.

As for the morality of conventional bombing versus atomic bombing, I will note that most of the victims at Hiroshima and Nagasaki were killed and injured in the same way as victims of conventional bombing raids: by burns from fires. I do not find the arguments that the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were uniquely horrible compared conventional bombing to be very convincing.“
Without image searching can you tell which are which citieS?
Does some killed by fire bombs or explosive bombs or nukes know the difference?
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sly279
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30 Dec 2018, 5:10 am

Imagine the war had gone on, and we bombed very single Japanese city ebery night after night, killing 185,000-300,000 every day as the Japanese military holds on for a decisive victory. They were arming kids to fight to the last breath.
They had more military then us estimates and we planned to lose millions fighting what we thought they had.
Up to 10million Japanese or mor we’re expected to die. Look at the holdouts fighting until the 90s.

So 130,000 vs 10 million or more which is better?
They would have fought til the end like Germans did but worse as most Japanese beleive in the cause unlike most Germans who just wanted the war to end.

Look at the bitter fighting in Germany, and most Germans were willing to comity suicide for Hitler. The few who were fought to the end including kids in Berlin.
Most Japanese were told Americans would rape and kill them so they had no choice but to fight to th death agains the American savage monsters.



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30 Dec 2018, 8:10 am

Japan and Germany WERE held accountable and punished for their war crimes. Some of their soldiers and generals were even executed by firing squad.

I can show you videos if you like?



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30 Dec 2018, 8:10 am

^^^Not "most Germans". The Nazis never had the support of more than around 1/3 of the populace. They managed to wheedle into power and enforce their will on the country by slowly eroding their opponents, blaming the Communists and other groups for various wrongs, and slowly making life worse for the Jewish inhabitants until the ultimate atrocity began.

A lot of Germans hated the Nazis but had to defend their country despite that. Many didn't know what was going on due to the government telling them what Hitler and Goebbels wanted them to hear.

The situation in Japan was a bit different due to the culture of the time. The emperor was revered as a type of God and most citizens felt an affront to the emperor was an affront to their nation and people. The situation there was similar to North Korea today.


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30 Dec 2018, 8:13 am







TW1ZTY
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30 Dec 2018, 8:22 am

I think we should have put some of the Americans in front of the firing squad for the atrocities they commited during that war. Like locking Japanese American citizens in internment camps AND dropping an atomic bomb on civilians.

Both of those things ARE WAR CRIMES!



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30 Dec 2018, 8:56 am

Too late now; 99% of them are dead by now.

But yes, there should have been a inquiry something like Nurenburg, except the victors never feel any need to inspect themselves and be found wanting.


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30 Dec 2018, 9:00 am

envirozentinel wrote:
Too late now; 99% of them are dead by now.

But yes, there should have been a inquiry something like Nurenburg, except the victors never feel any need to inspect themselves and be found wanting.

I do believe in karma, and I think one day all those evil things that the US has done will eventually catch up with us. I have no doubt it.



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30 Dec 2018, 4:19 pm

TW1ZTY wrote:
Japan and Germany WERE held accountable and punished for their war crimes. Some of their soldiers and generals were even executed by firing squad.

I can show you videos if you like?

Some were, most weren’t.
We needed them in leadership positions to run the nations.
We let a lot go, and they lived happy lives except some who Israel tracked down.
The Emperor for example should have been hung. Some prime ministers were war criminals.
Many nazis went on to hold government positions. Most the post war japan government was the same people who ordered war crimes.
Many nazis who should have been hung worked and lived In the USA cause they had technology we wanted.
There’s lots of i for how most got off free. Lots of angry victims over it.
If we’d held the, accountable we would have hung and jailed tens of thousands of people.
But we couldn’t cause we had the Soviet’s to worry about, so our enemy became our friend and our friend became our enemy.



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30 Dec 2018, 4:21 pm

TW1ZTY wrote:
I think we should have put some of the Americans in front of the firing squad for the atrocities they commited during that war. Like locking Japanese American citizens in internment camps AND dropping an atomic bomb on civilians.

Both of those things ARE WAR CRIMES!

Rules of war say it’s ok if there’s military in the cities.
Cities are military targets as that’s where military goods are made.
So are you also going charge every last pilot who dropped bombs though out the war?
War is war. Don’t like war don’t go to war. People will die in wars that’s what wars are it’s killing people.



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30 Dec 2018, 4:33 pm

envirozentinel wrote:
Too late now; 99% of them are dead by now.

But yes, there should have been a inquiry something like Nurenburg, except the victors never feel any need to inspect themselves and be found wanting.


Actual some soldiers were tried and punished for war crimes in ww2 and beyond
Example soldiers in Vietnam who butcher a Village.
The over all problem is if it’s not reported it can’t be punished. We didn’t find out about Many American war crimes until it was too late.
A lot of it’s hard too. Did speers shoot a bunch of prisoners? Or is it just romours passed on from soldier to solider, each telling is slightly different. He himself let the, spread cause it made him look like a badass. So did he commit a war crime? You’d be hard pressed to find any evidence from during dday invasion. So we’ll probably never know.
There’s lots of unknown war crimes from both sides, we only know about ther nazis and Japanese cause they documented just about everything, still they destroyed a lot of it so there’s probably a lot we don’t and will never know.
Russians killed thousands of polish officers and never got punished.

Many nazis lived happy lives, many went back to leadership positions after the imiatial sanctions were lifted. It makes me sick. Watch some of the hunt for nazis shows.
There’s some still alive today living in Europe. Men who killed so many people, getting state welfare.
They found one in nyc recently and deported him.
In the 90s they found one in south america(loads of nazis went ther after the war, there’s who cities of all German people there) finally got him to Italy where Italy ruled him not guilty since he was following orders to kill hundreds of people.
Only after Germany requested he be sent to Germany to face punishment and outcry of the Italian people did they punish him.
I personally don’t think age is a defense to punishment. I wish the emperor of Japan would have been hung, but he’d never surrendered under those terms.
Imaging if we never broke through to Germany and expected to lose 4 million Tripp’s so we made peace with Hitler and left him in power, and he continued to rule Germany as a figure head until his death.



sly279
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30 Dec 2018, 4:34 pm

TW1ZTY wrote:
envirozentinel wrote:
Too late now; 99% of them are dead by now.

But yes, there should have been a inquiry something like Nurenburg, except the victors never feel any need to inspect themselves and be found wanting.

I do believe in karma, and I think one day all those evil things that the US has done will eventually catch up with us. I have no doubt it.

Excuse me?
That’s not how Kama works. It won’t punish people for what their grandparents did.
Japanese today minus the bastards who were alive back then are not responsible for their grandparents actions same for Germans.
I don’t beleive in collective guilt.



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30 Dec 2018, 4:35 pm

If I was running things I would serve justice not only to my enemies but to my own people for not doing the right thing.

So yes, I would have had all those war criminals executed along with the war criminals in my own millitary. I don't play favorites in war.

Like Daernery says on Game of Thrones when she executes one great master for each child slave that was killed:

"I will answer injustice with justice!"



Last edited by TW1ZTY on 30 Dec 2018, 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sly279
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30 Dec 2018, 4:43 pm

sly279 wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
envirozentinel wrote:
Too late now; 99% of them are dead by now.

But yes, there should have been a inquiry something like Nurenburg, except the victors never feel any need to inspect themselves and be found wanting.

I do believe in karma, and I think one day all those evil things that the US has done will eventually catch up with us. I have no doubt it.

Excuse me?
That’s not how Kama works. It won’t punish people for what their grandparents did.
Japanese today minus the bastards who were alive back then are not responsible for their grandparents actions same for Germans.
I don’t beleive in collective guilt.

Yes it does. "Sins of the Father".



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30 Dec 2018, 4:44 pm

“according to Japanese sources, "the Nanjing Massacre never occurred."”

Sounds like holocaust deniers to me.