The great university con: the devaluation of British degrees

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It just seems insane that 100 could be the average graduate IQ. Either no one intelligent goes to university any more or there are sizeable numbers of below average, nay, let's be honest, literally stupid people running around with accredited degrees.

You're right - for that to be the average IQ, a representative sample of ALL of society would have to graduate. 100 is likely plain wrong.

UCLA offers a BA in ethnomusicology. Does anyone consider this as valuable as a BA in engineering? Colleges peddle many worthless degrees. Caveat emptor.

When I find a new hire who grasps that 16/64 is equal to 1/4, they've surpassed my expectations.

I've been thinking about this thread recently and the possibility of standards having dropped that far. I met a 30 something graduate (2:1 btw in politics) who is far beyond the "normal" level of stupidity. I do mean seriously slow. It got me thinking about it again. Even I struggled to believe the idea of the average graduate IQ being something like 100 last year, but now...

Well I tried to look up the source of that original quotable

Most tellingly, in 2016, when the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) studied basic skill levels among recent graduates from 23 countries, England ranked in the bottom third.

According to their study, one in five graduates in England could not handle literacy tasks more complicated than understanding the instructions on a packet of aspirin, while the numeracy level of 28 per cent was limited to estimating the fuel left on a petrol gauge.

^ this is graduates remember. Graduates with accredited degrees found to semi-literate and barely numerate. Am I crazy to think that, barring brain injuries, no one with a degree of any kind should be that illiterate or that innumerate? This is stuff people with 100 IQ should be capable of doing with only the barest of teaching in the toddler years.

I stumbled across this article while searching:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/educati ... -1.3800640

OECD data/analysis, perhaps not the same study,

Up to 6 per cent of Irish university graduates are functionally illiterate, according to latest international research.

These rates, contained in an OECD study, are significantly higher than in Finland (2 per cent) or the Netherlands (3 per cent), though are similar to the UK (7 per cent).

6% of graduates in Ireland and 7% in England are "functional illiterate". Terrible but maybe not the end of the world...

...but then it gets worse...

The data, gathered in 2012, involved international assessments of 25-64 year-old university graduates .

That means this includes graduates from the years prior to the great stupidification of education. How bad could the recent generation of graduates be? 100 average for the 2010s cohort is looking more and more likely to me. And these accredited imbeciles are working their way into institutions of all kinds.

This looks like it could be the original source

https://www.oecd.org/unitedkingdom/buil ... ngland.pdf

Young university graduates (aged 20-34) in England perform at around the OECD average level in literacy and below the average in numeracy.

OECD average literacy and below average numeracy for the younger cohort of graduates again. Maybe 100 is too high?

A thing I've noticed generally when it comes to exams/tests, not just college/university, is the large amount of people saying they've scored in the A+ to A- range.

In America, the SAT has been re-jiggered so many times that the current scores bear little relation to ones from the past. Sky-high scores like 800s were rare when I was a lad; now they're almost no big deal.

As a current UK University student; I am painfully aware of this. In my second year, the tutors spent a significant amount of time on strike. Most of my knowledge comes from internet tutorials. However, I also know that a degree is typically expected in the area I'm interested in. My main reason for going to university is the resources it provides, such as access to high-end camera equipment and meeting rooms. I've heard University be referred to as an overpriced library pass and I'd agree with that statement since in my particular situation that's how I've been using it.

With that said, I have appreciated the client work my university has provided. This has given me something to write about on my CV.

My social life would be basically dead without university, and I hope to stay in touch with some of the people I have met from this time, at least for a short while after graduation.

I know I've certainly felt like that picture of a dog walking itself before.



A couple of my tutors have been absolutely useless at teaching. I've had lessons where all I did was sign in my name for attendance, then I went back home to do the work in my accommodation.

Living in accommodation has taught me some useful life lessons; so I certainly appreciate that aspect of university.

I want to set myself up as a freelancer and hopefully work my way up. Thankfully, with the area I'm studying it's quite possible to teach yourself skills through the internet.

That's easy to grasp , and I failed math O level the first time due to the exam having a lot of geometry questions.

Ethnomusicology is very important because people who teach at schools that teach nothing but music like Curtis in Philadelphia or The Berklee school in Boston.They must have teachers at those schools to teach ethnonomusicology,every conservatory of music must offer ethnomusicology,it's essential at a music only school.

Ethonomusicology was pioneered by Hungarian composer Bela Bartok,who studied Hungarian and Romanian folk as his specialty.

So yes for schools that teach nothing but music,have a ethnomusicology professor is critical.

For instance if you want to play Oboe in a symphony orchestra you have to go to a conservatory(a school that teaches only music)at the conservatory you will take an ethnomusicology class and here's why.

If your in a symphony orchestra you will play Brahms and Brahms was very very influenced by Gypsy or Romani music,so if you want to interpret Brahms well it helps to know some Romani music.Thats why ethnomusicology is important and pragmatically useful.

Studying for an MA at a prestigious British art school, I was amazed about some things about my co-students: the sheer number of people with dyslexia and dyscalculia.
But I thought it was great that they could still develop their talents and become self-sufficient as artists, rather than be considered too stupid for any other job because writing and math gave them troubles.
The German education system I was used to would have likely discarded them early on.

That said, the students I work with certainly do not work in a field where they can get far being dyslexic or dyscalculic (that's not a word, yet, but I'm trying to make it one), yet they still write like 3rd graders.

One of the people on my course at university was dyslexic (I’m sure it was more than that, but only one told me). He was in his late 20s, had flunked out of the education system for a long time, and had just built up the confidence to go back. He was clearly incredibly bright and very studious, but without the appropriate support he hadn’t been able to show that at his first run through. I think if an OECD researcher sprung a surprise literacy test on him then he would appear to be functionally illiterate, but with assistive technology or just conditions where he could really focus, he was capable of understanding extremely complex material.

By the same token there were people there who genuinely didn’t seem to be up to it. In my first week I spoke to someone who had got two grades lower than me across the board at A Level. I think she’d be allowed in despite failing to meet the requirements because she had some relevant volunteering experience. Later that year she was very intimidated at the thought of having to get 40% in a multiple choice exam. And this is at a university that is in the top third or quarter in the country. The majority of universities are full of people who are broadly less capable.

That said, I still think it’s clearly a good thing that we have broad university access. I have friends who turned mediocre degrees (and arguably intellects) into careers in computing or banking. If the alternative is them getting jobs at supermarkets while the top 20% hoover up every prospect, well, that seems rather bleak to me.

In the mid 70's , When I would have gone to university if I'd not become ill, <10% went.

As a suspected dyscalculic, I have noticed a significant amount of other students in the art department have a learning disorder or disability. ADHD and dyslexia are particularly common. Many of us are self-deprecating about this. Unfortunately, many students slip through the cracks and don't get any support. I knew one dyslexic student who got support in their foundation year, but was unable to renew their learning contract since you can't have the same contract on two courses. He tried to cancel the foundation contact, but was unable to.

I do poorly in traditional education. Although there is a lot of stigma surrounding art courses, I didn't really have much of a choice. If I'd gone into a typical STEM degree, I'd probably have had a breakdown by now and dropped out. Personally, I am the type of student who does well in coursework but often fails in exams. That's why I was happy to go on to a degree with no exams which is almost entirely coursework. I'm not stupid but I'd likely be treated as such in an academic setting.

When I was sixteen - seventeen, I used to have a maths teacher who used to enjoy making fun of me. I have developed a certain amount of maths anxiety over the years. Can you blame me? I've been told from age nine that I'll never make anything of myself and that I'm a lazy. That I'm smarter than this and I'm just faking. I've even been told that I give women a bad name. Thinking creatively is second-nature to me. I think many of us turn to art as a way to cope.

The thing with support is that they are often looking for a very particular type of student and anyone else doesn't make the cut. Granted, I am bitter since I got little to no support over the years. Despite being flagged as a severe concern in visual processing and the test results recommended further investigation. The reason they gave me was that overall I was average and that they couldn't go around helping everyone.

Going into commercial art combined with technology (such as graphic design, special effects, app development, film production, video editing etc.) has given me the chance to start setting myself up as a freelancer and find work rather than just flunking out. Creative problem solving and creating digital products is just what I do. Having hyperphantasia and a tendency to hyper-focus comes in handy sometimes. I know some people look down on it, I've had clients think that they could easily do my job despite having no experience. Still, I like what I do and I do it well. That's good enough for me.

Back when I went to school, it was normal for 60 to 80% of STEM students to either drop out or switch to HASS majors before the end of their second year.  Those (of us) who stuck with it had high-paying careers for life!

Today, if I interview 20 or so BSEE graduates, I'll be surprised if even one of them can solve a simple resistance-network problem.

Yes, I expect Electrical Engineering graduates to pass a written examination containing problems lifted almost verbatim form first-year electrical textbooks.  Maybe 1 in 20 are capable.

Down the road is UCI.  Up the road is UCLA.

Grade inflation?  In Engineering?  In America?

I don't doubt it for even one, single, solitary femto-second.

Currently in the U.S. working on an English/creative writing degree.

I know it's mostly useless, but having autism/ADHD/dyscalculia limits what I can do. I'm crap at anything involving numbers or people, so I'm not a particularly valuable asset in America.

A 100 IQ now would be equivalent to 112 IQ in 1975- using Flynn effect?