An alternative hypothesis regarding the origin of Covid-19
11 Apr 2020, 6:07 pm
Darmok wrote:
Magna wrote:
My point is I don't think it's settled just because some scientists say very early on: "It's naturally derived. Nothing to see here. Case closed."
Exactly. When you start to see the left-wing networks put up headlines like "Sorry, conspiracy theorists. Study concludes COVID-19 'is not a laboratory construct'" — that just screams out that there is in fact more to the story and they're trying to get people to not even ask questions.
Knowing exactly where the current Covid strain(s) infecting humans came from will depend on a detailed phylogenetic analysis, and the precision of the determination will depend on the density of sampling from different potential sources – and that would include the many strains that would have been kept in the Wuhan virology labs as part of normal research. You're never going to get access to that, and most of the market itself was also destroyed or sterilized, so you're not going to get dense sampling there either. The Communist-friendly media will spin it as "not a weapon, case closed, if you keep asking questions you're obviously a 'conspiracy theorist.'"
Wow, I googled it. That actually is a headline: "Sorry, conspiracy theorists. Study concludes COVID-19 'is not a laboratory construct." The condescending tone of that headline alone speaks volumes. Volumes. Pro China, anyone?
11 Apr 2020, 6:22 pm
Magna wrote:
Darmok wrote:
Magna wrote:
My point is I don't think it's settled just because some scientists say very early on: "It's naturally derived. Nothing to see here. Case closed."
Exactly. When you start to see the left-wing networks put up headlines like "Sorry, conspiracy theorists. Study concludes COVID-19 'is not a laboratory construct'" — that just screams out that there is in fact more to the story and they're trying to get people to not even ask questions.
Knowing exactly where the current Covid strain(s) infecting humans came from will depend on a detailed phylogenetic analysis, and the precision of the determination will depend on the density of sampling from different potential sources – and that would include the many strains that would have been kept in the Wuhan virology labs as part of normal research. You're never going to get access to that, and most of the market itself was also destroyed or sterilized, so you're not going to get dense sampling there either. The Communist-friendly media will spin it as "not a weapon, case closed, if you keep asking questions you're obviously a 'conspiracy theorist.'"
Wow, I googled it. That actually is a headline: "Sorry, conspiracy theorists. Study concludes COVID-19 'is not a laboratory construct." The condescending tone of that headline alone speaks volumes. Volumes. Pro China, anyone?
Google away and show us what you find.
https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2020/03/26/genomic-research-points-to-natural-origin-of-covid-19/
https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/04/01/covid-19-bioweapon/
https://collections.plos.org/covid-19
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/be-careful-where-you-get-your-news-about-coronavirus-2020020118801
https://www.biospace.com/article/stop-the-conspiracy-theories-novel-coronavirus-has-natural-origin/
https://www.fema.gov/coronavirus-rumor-control
11 Apr 2020, 11:44 pm
domineekee wrote:
https://www.fredhutch.org/en/news/center-news/2020/02/covid19-open-science.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hutchinson_Cancer_Research_Center
Quote:
The downside became apparent on Jan. 31, after a group of researchers at the Indian Institutes of Technology posted on bioRxiv an analysis that purported to find an “uncanny similarity” between tiny segments of the virus' genes to sequences found in HIV — implying that new virus could be a laboratory-generated mutant. The authors posted a link to their paper on Twitter, and their claim gained attention globally.
Within hours, Bedford and other genomics experts posted fierce criticism of the bioRxiv paper. They pointed out that these same short sequences can be matched in coronaviruses previously found in wild bats and are commonplace in nature. If you searched for these short sequences in gene libraries, you’ll spot them “throughout the tree of life,” Bedford said later in an interview.
The chastened authors marked their paper “withdrawn” two days later, but a contagion of weak science and outright falsehoods had been unleashed. Freely available to anyone, the story morphed and blossomed on the websites of conspiracy theorists who headlined that “Scientists Confirm” the virus was “Man-Made.”
“In the scientific realm, things corrected themselves very quickly. That’s exactly how you want science to happen,” Bedford said. “But the post was picked up by various websites that are outside of the scientific dialog, and it doesn’t seem to be easily squashed.”
Within hours, Bedford and other genomics experts posted fierce criticism of the bioRxiv paper. They pointed out that these same short sequences can be matched in coronaviruses previously found in wild bats and are commonplace in nature. If you searched for these short sequences in gene libraries, you’ll spot them “throughout the tree of life,” Bedford said later in an interview.
The chastened authors marked their paper “withdrawn” two days later, but a contagion of weak science and outright falsehoods had been unleashed. Freely available to anyone, the story morphed and blossomed on the websites of conspiracy theorists who headlined that “Scientists Confirm” the virus was “Man-Made.”
“In the scientific realm, things corrected themselves very quickly. That’s exactly how you want science to happen,” Bedford said. “But the post was picked up by various websites that are outside of the scientific dialog, and it doesn’t seem to be easily squashed.”
Quote:
*Dr. Trevor Bedford
Dr. Trevor Bedford, an evolutionary biologist at Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, uses computers to study the spread of viruses.
Dr. Trevor Bedford, an evolutionary biologist at Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, uses computers to study the spread of viruses.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hutchinson_Cancer_Research_Center
Quote:
Notable faculty
The center has employed three recipients of the Nobel Prize in physiology or medicine:
Linda Buck, Ph.D., who received the award in 2004 for solving many details of the olfactory system;[17] and
E. Donnall Thomas, M.D., who received the award in 1990 for his pioneering work in bone-marrow transplantation and who died in 2012;[18][19] and
Lee Hartwell, Ph.D., who received the honor in 2001 for his discoveries regarding the mechanisms that control cell division.[20] After retiring from leading the center in 2010, Hartwell left to join Arizona State University.[21]
The center has employed three recipients of the Nobel Prize in physiology or medicine:
Linda Buck, Ph.D., who received the award in 2004 for solving many details of the olfactory system;[17] and
E. Donnall Thomas, M.D., who received the award in 1990 for his pioneering work in bone-marrow transplantation and who died in 2012;[18][19] and
Lee Hartwell, Ph.D., who received the honor in 2001 for his discoveries regarding the mechanisms that control cell division.[20] After retiring from leading the center in 2010, Hartwell left to join Arizona State University.[21]
Must Thank Domikee for corresponding information , i feel it s most important to have incidents such a these viewed from as any potential angles as possible.
_________________
Diagnosed hfa
Loves velcro,
Quote:
where ever you go ,there you are
12 Apr 2020, 7:08 am
Jakki wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
Jakki wrote:
China has no other way of leveling the economic playing field .
China has lots of ways of levelling the economic field. This isn’t one of them.
??? another hypothesis please?
they have excess population comparatively .We recent imposed sanctions on exporting of high tech information . If you undo the population and economy of a more successful country by disease process, And that countries population is smaller than your own countries . Your losses of working personnel of your smaller country might mitigate your countries ability to act in the global economic sector ?????
Not remotely.
Zoonoses hop to humanity on a regular basis. By far the most likely explanation is that this is the same. Saying it is a bioweapon is like saying Hurricane Katrina was created by Russia - no, it was just a hurricane!
The disease has done huge damage to the Chinese economy. If China was going to use a bioweapon to damage the American economy, they’d release it in all your major cities and then shut down all travel. But even that would be a disaster for the Chinese economy.
China’s economy depends, to a very large extent, on the American economy.
So what the hell would China’s motivation be? You seem to be suggesting, correct me if I’m wrong, that the short term hit to China’s economy would be worth it if Americans died and people had to turn to Chinese professionals to do the jobs that Americans used to do. Things like lawyers, accountants, journalists, creative professionals. But those are exactly the sort of people who are best placed to survive Coronavirus - people who can work remotely, who don’t have to encounter people day to day, generally young and affluent. The people being killed are the elderly (who don’t work), frontline service workers (who cannot be outsourced) as well as the sick.
So the virus 1) isn’t achieving the aim you suggest, 2) is damaging China’s economy, and 3) doesn’t even fit the pattern you’d expect a bioweapon to fit.
The weapon theory is completely unhinged.
The “accidental escape from a lab” theory is less unhinged, but still seems considerably less likely than the zoonose theory. Labs try to avoid escapes for obvious reasons, but zoonoses happen all the time and the conditions in China lead to it.
12 Apr 2020, 7:37 am
Jakki wrote:
domineekee wrote:
https://www.fredhutch.org/en/news/center-news/2020/02/covid19-open-science.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hutchinson_Cancer_Research_Center
Quote:
The downside became apparent on Jan. 31, after a group of researchers at the Indian Institutes of Technology posted on bioRxiv an analysis that purported to find an “uncanny similarity” between tiny segments of the virus' genes to sequences found in HIV — implying that new virus could be a laboratory-generated mutant. The authors posted a link to their paper on Twitter, and their claim gained attention globally.
Within hours, Bedford and other genomics experts posted fierce criticism of the bioRxiv paper. They pointed out that these same short sequences can be matched in coronaviruses previously found in wild bats and are commonplace in nature. If you searched for these short sequences in gene libraries, you’ll spot them “throughout the tree of life,” Bedford said later in an interview.
The chastened authors marked their paper “withdrawn” two days later, but a contagion of weak science and outright falsehoods had been unleashed. Freely available to anyone, the story morphed and blossomed on the websites of conspiracy theorists who headlined that “Scientists Confirm” the virus was “Man-Made.”
“In the scientific realm, things corrected themselves very quickly. That’s exactly how you want science to happen,” Bedford said. “But the post was picked up by various websites that are outside of the scientific dialog, and it doesn’t seem to be easily squashed.”
Within hours, Bedford and other genomics experts posted fierce criticism of the bioRxiv paper. They pointed out that these same short sequences can be matched in coronaviruses previously found in wild bats and are commonplace in nature. If you searched for these short sequences in gene libraries, you’ll spot them “throughout the tree of life,” Bedford said later in an interview.
The chastened authors marked their paper “withdrawn” two days later, but a contagion of weak science and outright falsehoods had been unleashed. Freely available to anyone, the story morphed and blossomed on the websites of conspiracy theorists who headlined that “Scientists Confirm” the virus was “Man-Made.”
“In the scientific realm, things corrected themselves very quickly. That’s exactly how you want science to happen,” Bedford said. “But the post was picked up by various websites that are outside of the scientific dialog, and it doesn’t seem to be easily squashed.”
Quote:
*Dr. Trevor Bedford
Dr. Trevor Bedford, an evolutionary biologist at Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, uses computers to study the spread of viruses.
Dr. Trevor Bedford, an evolutionary biologist at Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, uses computers to study the spread of viruses.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hutchinson_Cancer_Research_Center
Quote:
Notable faculty
The center has employed three recipients of the Nobel Prize in physiology or medicine:
Linda Buck, Ph.D., who received the award in 2004 for solving many details of the olfactory system;[17] and
E. Donnall Thomas, M.D., who received the award in 1990 for his pioneering work in bone-marrow transplantation and who died in 2012;[18][19] and
Lee Hartwell, Ph.D., who received the honor in 2001 for his discoveries regarding the mechanisms that control cell division.[20] After retiring from leading the center in 2010, Hartwell left to join Arizona State University.[21]
The center has employed three recipients of the Nobel Prize in physiology or medicine:
Linda Buck, Ph.D., who received the award in 2004 for solving many details of the olfactory system;[17] and
E. Donnall Thomas, M.D., who received the award in 1990 for his pioneering work in bone-marrow transplantation and who died in 2012;[18][19] and
Lee Hartwell, Ph.D., who received the honor in 2001 for his discoveries regarding the mechanisms that control cell division.[20] After retiring from leading the center in 2010, Hartwell left to join Arizona State University.[21]
Must Thank Domikee for corresponding information , i feel it s most important to have incidents such a these viewed from as any potential angles as possible.
No worries Jakki, the video is certainly well made, perfect for a late night spooky!
Trawling the internet I came across this site that has over 300 submissions from scientists on covid 19, I couldn't find any mention of bioweapon etc..it has papers on treatments, origins, it's a real hub of info.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/research/coronavirus/
and another site where open submissions can be made by scientists from anywhere. Again...nothing
https://plos.org/blog/announcement/plos-one-publishes-additional-coronavirus-related-papers/
12 Apr 2020, 4:55 pm
Even left-wing Newsweek is wondering if something is going on.
CHINA IS CENSORING RESEARCH ON COVID-19 ORIGINS, DELETED PAGE ON WUHAN UNIVERSITY WEBSITE SUGGESTS
The Chinese government appears to be censoring research on the origins of the COVID-19 epidemic by requiring scientists to run their studies by the Ministry of Science and Technology, a since-deleted page on a university website shows.
https://www.newsweek.com/china-censorin ... ts-1497467
_________________
There Are Four Lights!
12 Apr 2020, 6:06 pm
Darmok wrote:
Even left-wing Newsweek is wondering if something is going on.
CHINA IS CENSORING RESEARCH ON COVID-19 ORIGINS, DELETED PAGE ON WUHAN UNIVERSITY WEBSITE SUGGESTS
The Chinese government appears to be censoring research on the origins of the COVID-19 epidemic by requiring scientists to run their studies by the Ministry of Science and Technology, a since-deleted page on a university website shows.
https://www.newsweek.com/china-censorin ... ts-1497467
CHINA IS CENSORING RESEARCH ON COVID-19 ORIGINS, DELETED PAGE ON WUHAN UNIVERSITY WEBSITE SUGGESTS
The Chinese government appears to be censoring research on the origins of the COVID-19 epidemic by requiring scientists to run their studies by the Ministry of Science and Technology, a since-deleted page on a university website shows.
https://www.newsweek.com/china-censorin ... ts-1497467
While this much is true
Quote:
The precise origin of the coronavirus has not been fully established.
the bioweapon theory hasn't gained any traction among scientist or right wing media outlets.
Agreed, the CCP have been anything but transparent and concerns were raised by French and American biologists back in 2017.
http://chinascope.org/archives/21031
Quote:
an American biosafety consultant made a comment in the Nature Journal in 2017. Regarding the establishment of a P4 laboratory in China, he expressed his concern about a potential virus leakage. He believed that the Chinese system would make laboratories unsafe because free speech and open information are particularly important for scientific development.
https://www.nature.com/news/inside-the-chinese-lab-poised-to-study-world-s-most-dangerous-pathogens-1.21487
Quote:
The SARS virus has escaped from high-level containment facilities in Beijing multiple times, notes Richard Ebright, a molecular biologist at Rutgers University in Piscataway, New Jersey. Tim Trevan, founder of CHROME Biosafety and Biosecurity Consulting in Damascus, Maryland, says that an open culture is important to keeping BSL-4 labs safe, and he questions how easy this will be in China, where society emphasizes hierarchy. “Diversity of viewpoint, flat structures where everyone feels free to speak up and openness of information are important,” he says.
*Editors’ note, January 2020: Many stories have promoted an unverified theory that the Wuhan lab discussed in this article played a role in the coronavirus outbreak that began in December 2019. Nature knows of no evidence that this is true; scientists believe the most likely source of the coronavirus to be an animal market.
12 Apr 2020, 9:03 pm
The_Walrus wrote:
Jakki wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
Jakki wrote:
China has no other way of leveling the economic playing field .
China has lots of ways of levelling the economic field. This isn’t one of them.
??? another hypothesis please?
they have excess population comparatively .We recent imposed sanctions on exporting of high tech information . If you undo the population and economy of a more successful country by disease process, And that countries population is smaller than your own countries . Your losses of working personnel of your smaller country might mitigate your countries ability to act in the global economic sector ?????
Not remotely.
Zoonoses hop to humanity on a regular basis. By far the most likely explanation is that this is the same. Saying it is a bioweapon is like saying Hurricane Katrina was created by Russia - no, it was just a hurricane!
The disease has done huge damage to the Chinese economy. If China was going to use a bioweapon to damage the American economy, they’d release it in all your major cities and then shut down all travel. But even that would be a disaster for the Chinese economy.
China’s economy depends, to a very large extent, on the American economy.
So what the hell would China’s motivation be? You seem to be suggesting, correct me if I’m wrong, that the short term hit to China’s economy would be worth it if Americans died and people had to turn to Chinese professionals to do the jobs that Americans used to do. Things like lawyers, accountants, journalists, creative professionals. But those are exactly the sort of people who are best placed to survive Coronavirus - people who can work remotely, who don’t have to encounter people day to day, generally young and affluent. The people being killed are the elderly (who don’t work), frontline service workers (who cannot be outsourced) as well as the sick.
So the virus 1) isn’t achieving the aim you suggest, 2) is damaging China’s economy, and 3) doesn’t even fit the pattern you’d expect a bioweapon to fit.
The weapon theory is completely unhinged.
The “accidental escape from a lab” theory is less unhinged, but still seems considerably less likely than the zoonose theory. Labs try to avoid escapes for obvious reasons, but zoonoses happen all the time and the conditions in China lead to it.
yes .... indeed .. please pardon my attempting to be including my opinion on this thread. yes if you sense sarcasm .. you most likely are correct about that .
But if you actually read what i had written , it would not be hard to percieve by virtue of population enormity of China . And the previous points outlined in the video . That the side effects on their economy and those of its allies would undoubtedly benefit to even a short term disruption of the USA economy versus the recently expanding China economy . A limited point of veiw might think that the world is so primarily dependant only on the US economy but rather the balance of the entire Worlds global economy . Of which Chinas enormous population advantage , Gives them a almost gigantic manpower advantage . Thereby implieing a huge production ability advantage.
Whose ever economy recovers the fastest . Will have a certain degree of advantage .. i believe . aswell as believing you are entitled to your opinion aswell. Albeit being aware and well read and (experienced ) in dealing with what some peoples FOIA results outlined methodologies to designing biowarfare type bacteria .Hopefully without dissing another less powerful . less experienced contributor to this entire sites threads might have . As am not a moderator to this site. Hopefully your reponse to my writing on this thread are not meant personally , inspite of appearances of being worded quite strongly
_________________
Diagnosed hfa
Loves velcro,
Quote:
where ever you go ,there you are
12 Apr 2020, 10:11 pm
The_Walrus wrote:
Jakki wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
Jakki wrote:
China has no other way of leveling the economic playing field .
China has lots of ways of levelling the economic field. This isn’t one of them.
??? another hypothesis please?
they have excess population comparatively .We recent imposed sanctions on exporting of high tech information . If you undo the population and economy of a more successful country by disease process, And that countries population is smaller than your own countries . Your losses of working personnel of your smaller country might mitigate your countries ability to act in the global economic sector ?????
Not remotely.
Zoonoses hop to humanity on a regular basis. By far the most likely explanation is that this is the same. Saying it is a bioweapon is like saying Hurricane Katrina was created by Russia - no, it was just a hurricane!
The disease has done huge damage to the Chinese economy. If China was going to use a bioweapon to damage the American economy, they’d release it in all your major cities and then shut down all travel. But even that would be a disaster for the Chinese economy.
China’s economy depends, to a very large extent, on the American economy.
So what the hell would China’s motivation be? You seem to be suggesting, correct me if I’m wrong, that the short term hit to China’s economy would be worth it if Americans died and people had to turn to Chinese professionals to do the jobs that Americans used to do. Things like lawyers, accountants, journalists, creative professionals. But those are exactly the sort of people who are best placed to survive Coronavirus - people who can work remotely, who don’t have to encounter people day to day, generally young and affluent. The people being killed are the elderly (who don’t work), frontline service workers (who cannot be outsourced) as well as the sick.
So the virus 1) isn’t achieving the aim you suggest, 2) is damaging China’s economy, and 3) doesn’t even fit the pattern you’d expect a bioweapon to fit.
The weapon theory is completely unhinged.
The “accidental escape from a lab” theory is less unhinged, but still seems considerably less likely than the zoonose theory. Labs try to avoid escapes for obvious reasons, but zoonoses happen all the time and the conditions in China lead to it.
What reasons did/does China have for not allowing the rest of the world to study aspects of the virus' origin on Chinese soil?
Since Chinese manipulation of a virus is "unhinged" thinking, if this virus occurred naturally, then why hasn't China at this point let scientists in? I could see why the communist government withheld information on this virus originally because their government is based on lies, but the bat's been out of the bag for months now.
Reverse the situation and assume the U.K. or the U.S. had a new virus of natural origin on its soil. Would either the U.K. or the U.S. bar other countries from researching the disease? No.
An adage for every person to commit to memory: "People who have nothing to hide, hide nothing." What does China have to hide here? They could be a hero here by being a part of the the rest of humanity and say: "We're all in this together. Let's solve this together. We'll cooperate and be a team player on this." Or...they could continue to be the villain and the enemy on this by acting like they're guilty of something.
Thoughts?
13 Apr 2020, 7:25 am
Magna wrote:
What reasons did/does China have for not allowing the rest of the world to study aspects of the virus' origin on Chinese soil?
Since Chinese manipulation of a virus is "unhinged" thinking, if this virus occurred naturally, then why hasn't China at this point let scientists in? I could see why the communist government withheld information on this virus originally because their government is based on lies, but the bat's been out of the bag for months now.
Reverse the situation and assume the U.K. or the U.S. had a new virus of natural origin on its soil. Would either the U.K. or the U.S. bar other countries from researching the disease? No.
An adage for every person to commit to memory: "People who have nothing to hide, hide nothing." What does China have to hide here? They could be a hero here by being a part of the the rest of humanity and say: "We're all in this together. Let's solve this together. We'll cooperate and be a team player on this." Or...they could continue to be the villain and the enemy on this by acting like they're guilty of something.
Thoughts?
Gosh, where to start...
Firstly it’s bloody obvious why no foreign academics have gone to Wuhan to study the virus. That would be the same no matter where the virus had originated.
Secondly, the bigger issue is the Chinese government’s recent attempt to stop Chinese scientists researching the virus’ origins.
The CCP is doing exactly the same thing as you are. You are ignoring the science and distorting the truth because you want to make a political point. Instead of viewing this as a natural disaster you’re promoting an insane, baseless conspiracy theory with no evidence supporting it. And so are the CCP, except they swap “China” and “America” - the party line is that this is a bioweapon created by America to destroy the Chinese economy. Frankly, perverting the truth in this way is a banal form of evil. The Chinese form of the conspiracy theory is just as dangerous and just as obviously untrue as the American form, although slightly less unhinged (“America released the virus in China to destroy the Chinese economy” makes more sense than “China released the virus in China to destroy the American economy).
The truth - that the virus is almost certainly the result of the everyday habits of ordinary Chinese people - is deeply embarrassing to the CCP. The conspiracy theory is potentially useful, and helps avoid the embarrassment. Certainly they couldn’t possibly emerge from this as heroes.
The fact that it took them five months to start suppressing academic research suggests that this isn’t an orchestrated attempt to hide the secret bioweapon, it’s a scrambled attempt to hide the embarrassing accident. (Of course party officials were always somewhat reluctant to report - but that is very different to academia, and as late as February the CCP were allowing their scientists to collaborate with Hong Kong based scientists).
The options here are side with the truth, or keep promoting the CCP’s bioweapon theory. What’s it going to be?
13 Apr 2020, 8:14 am
The_Walrus wrote:
Magna wrote:
What reasons did/does China have for not allowing the rest of the world to study aspects of the virus' origin on Chinese soil?
Since Chinese manipulation of a virus is "unhinged" thinking, if this virus occurred naturally, then why hasn't China at this point let scientists in? I could see why the communist government withheld information on this virus originally because their government is based on lies, but the bat's been out of the bag for months now.
Reverse the situation and assume the U.K. or the U.S. had a new virus of natural origin on its soil. Would either the U.K. or the U.S. bar other countries from researching the disease? No.
An adage for every person to commit to memory: "People who have nothing to hide, hide nothing." What does China have to hide here? They could be a hero here by being a part of the the rest of humanity and say: "We're all in this together. Let's solve this together. We'll cooperate and be a team player on this." Or...they could continue to be the villain and the enemy on this by acting like they're guilty of something.
Thoughts?
Gosh, where to start...
Firstly it’s bloody obvious why no foreign academics have gone to Wuhan to study the virus. That would be the same no matter where the virus had originated.
Secondly, the bigger issue is the Chinese government’s recent attempt to stop Chinese scientists researching the virus’ origins.
The CCP is doing exactly the same thing as you are. You are ignoring the science and distorting the truth because you want to make a political point. Instead of viewing this as a natural disaster you’re promoting an insane, baseless conspiracy theory with no evidence supporting it. And so are the CCP, except they swap “China” and “America” - the party line is that this is a bioweapon created by America to destroy the Chinese economy. Frankly, perverting the truth in this way is a banal form of evil. The Chinese form of the conspiracy theory is just as dangerous and just as obviously untrue as the American form, although slightly less unhinged (“America released the virus in China to destroy the Chinese economy” makes more sense than “China released the virus in China to destroy the American economy).
The truth - that the virus is almost certainly the result of the everyday habits of ordinary Chinese people - is deeply embarrassing to the CCP. The conspiracy theory is potentially useful, and helps avoid the embarrassment. Certainly they couldn’t possibly emerge from this as heroes.
The fact that it took them five months to start suppressing academic research suggests that this isn’t an orchestrated attempt to hide the secret bioweapon, it’s a scrambled attempt to hide the embarrassing accident. (Of course party officials were always somewhat reluctant to report - but that is very different to academia, and as late as February the CCP were allowing their scientists to collaborate with Hong Kong based scientists).
The options here are side with the truth, or keep promoting the CCP’s bioweapon theory. What’s it going to be?
I think I'll wait for awhile before deciding what it's going to be for me.
Even if the virus is of natural origin, China is negligent from a legal standpoint in the same way that a person would be if they unearthed some sort of toxic substance on their property and kept it quiet while their neighbors started getting sick and dying from it. Negligence. Accountability. Financial accountability.
China is an enemy of the free world. If their reputation is soiled from their response to this pandemic, that would be a positive outcome from the virus and it has been heartening to see that there thankfully seems to be fewer instances in the media/social media of sickening support of that country.
13 Apr 2020, 9:28 am
Did coronavirus leak from a research lab in Wuhan? Startling new theory is 'no longer being discounted' amid claims staff 'got infected after being sprayed with blood'
Ministers fear that the coronavirus pandemic might have been caused by a leak from a Chinese laboratory, The Mail on Sunday can reveal.
Senior Government sources say that while 'the balance of scientific advice' is still that the deadly virus was first transmitted to humans from a live animal market in Wuhan, a leak from a laboratory in the Chinese city is 'no longer being discounted'.
One member of Cobra, the emergency committee led by Boris Johnson, said last night that while the latest intelligence did not dispute the virus was 'zoonotic' – originating in animals – it did not rule out that the virus first spread to humans after leaking from a Wuhan laboratory.
The member of Cobra, which receives detailed classified briefings from the security services, said: 'There is a credible alternative view [to the zoonotic theory] based on the nature of the virus. Perhaps it is no coincidence that there is that laboratory in Wuhan. It is not discounted.'
Wuhan is home to the Institute of Virology, the most advanced laboratory of its type on the Chinese mainland.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... unted.html
_________________
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13 Apr 2020, 2:30 pm
Magna wrote:
Even if the virus is of natural origin, China is negligent from a legal standpoint in the same way that a person would be if they unearthed some sort of toxic substance on their property and kept it quiet while their neighbors started getting sick and dying from it. Negligence. Accountability. Financial accountability.
Are you an expert in international pandemic law?
13 Apr 2020, 3:02 pm
The_Walrus wrote:
Magna wrote:
Even if the virus is of natural origin, China is negligent from a legal standpoint in the same way that a person would be if they unearthed some sort of toxic substance on their property and kept it quiet while their neighbors started getting sick and dying from it. Negligence. Accountability. Financial accountability.
Are you an expert in international pandemic law?
Is there such a thing as "international pandemic law"? If there is, do I have to be an expert in order to have an opinion on the subject?
There are international tort laws and there are intentional and unintentional torts both of which can be adjudicated.
13 Apr 2020, 3:28 pm
Magna wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
Magna wrote:
Even if the virus is of natural origin, China is negligent from a legal standpoint in the same way that a person would be if they unearthed some sort of toxic substance on their property and kept it quiet while their neighbors started getting sick and dying from it. Negligence. Accountability. Financial accountability.
Are you an expert in international pandemic law?
Is there such a thing as "international pandemic law"? If there is, do I have to be an expert in order to have an opinion on the subject?
There are international tort laws and there are intentional and unintentional torts both of which can be adjudicated.
Probably best to wait on the evidence as to the transmission link from bats to humans, if the pangolin theory is proved correct they are illegal as food in China: not sure if prosecuting a government for the byproduct of actions taken by criminals in their territory is a helpful precedent to set.
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