Being provided a living If one can’t work

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And does "does not" mean to refuse in this case or does it mean what it literally says?

If the latter then suicide is not only valid but a duty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Ep ... ssalonians

There seems to be a debate over 2 Thessalonians and the authenticity of it. Interesting!

But you’re working in China....

I will be if all goes well with the visa and other paper work.

I'm on a dependent visa so it and in China so I will more then likely be able to work. I do fear it may not.

This thread is mainly against the hypocrisy of the religious right and refuting libertarian and right wing logic.

If we're truthfully going to and I will quote the as*hole Trump "Make America Great Again" then I think certain things need to change. But, we can't get these changes b/c of certain right wing and religious conservative types who see things a certain way. This is why we as leftist/liberals can't fight them the way we've been doing it. We have to fight and challenge them ideologically.

Example, they believe in our inalienable rights to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness which is in our declaration of independence. What if their right to pursue happiness and their liberty impacts my very life? Example is the corona virus situation and the whole sheltering in place? Do they have the right to their liberty if their liberty would cause them to pass on this novel and deadly virus to others and to use up needed medical supplies? Benjamin Franklin said ""Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." They have to be able to use reason and logic to define how the liberty they're demanding is essential liberty?

Our nation set precedent with the Typhoid Mary Case. Your liberty does not give you the right to kill others. Your liberty is not an essential liberty. https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/joy ... 47851.html

Gun control and the second amendment: Supposedly the 2nd amendment enumerates the people have the right to guns and weaponry and one can't infringe upon this. There are no exceptions at all. If a person is a threat to other people and has been deemed a threat like Nikolas Kruz was many times before he did what he did in Fl then why should he have a right to a gun or any weaponry at all? How is this an essential liberty?

If we're a Christian nation then can we be truthfully Christ-like and actually follow what he says?

We’re not, officially, a Christian nation. We don’t even have an official language.

But all that doesn’t matter. We wouldn’t be a viable nation if tens of millions of people opted not to “play the game.”

But I get your viewpoint, Cube.

Here we have this saying: "Whose food you eat, that's whose songs you sing."

It's usually used for two situations:
1. If you live under someone else's roof and they pay for your living, you must follow their rules or
2. When at work, you follow the orders you get because the ones giving you the orders pay you for that.

Don't wanna keep singing? Gotta get your food from elsewhere, then.

Perfect sense.

As my first DM used to say, "Don't wanna play by my rules?  Find another game!"

Well firstly, humans are different from other animals in a whole host of ways which I’m sure you approve of. For example, we are far better at communication than any other species, we have more developed moral reasoning, we have the most complex societies.

Secondly, there are many animals that do not provide food for themselves. Pets, livestock, the young of species that use a K-strategy, dominant members of social species, whole classes of social species. We don’t tend to demand that the frail continue to feed themselves. If someone leaves an elderly relative or a child in their bedroom without bringing them food, we consider them criminally negligent or even abusive.

Personally, I am a fan of Universal Basic Income for the following reasons:

- A free market only functions properly if people are free to make their decisions. Presently, in most employee-employer relationships the balance of power resides overwhelmingly with the employer. It’s easier to find a new employee than it is to find a new employer. With UBI, the employee has a safety net to fall back on and can choose to walk away from a bad job without risking their health and safety.

- It is not the responsibility of employers to ensure that their employees have enough money. It is the responsibility of governments to ensure that their citizens have all they need. Governments should stop burdening businesses with work that should be done by the government, and allow businesses to get on with making money.

- Attempts to make conditional safety nets have historically failed. Governments are bad at judging whether someone “can” work. That judgement should be left to individuals, who know the most about their circumstances.

- There is no evidence that UBI leads to substantial numbers of people opting not to work. Indeed, most people actively prefer to work. Don’t we all have friends who are bemoaning being furloughed or unemployed as a result of the current crisis? Why aren’t they celebrating the extra time off?

- Administration costs would be slashed dramatically.

In short, I support UBI because it would get the government out of our lives and let people make more decisions for themselves.

[opinion=mine]

Only when UBI unconditionally provides for only the most basic necessities of living does it have a chance of working.

[/opinion]

DM?

But, what you all say is true.

Dungeon Master - the person who runs a game of Dungeons and Dragons.

A.K.A.: "Game Master" and "Referee", among others.

If an employee does not like the way the business is being run or how much pay and benefits the employee receives, then the employee is free to seek employment elsewhere -- there is no indentured servitude or slavery involved.  It's strictly a "Love your job or leave it" proposition, nothing more.

And if you simply cannot possibly love your job, and leaving your job means no income because you cannot find another job, then maybe you should learn to love simply having a job and get back to work.

A. I looked up indentured servitude. You're right it is not based upon the definition of it.

B. With Dungeons and Dragons one can simply choose not to play. With employment, you can choose the table but what if all the tables are similar and you can't refrain from choosing a table? No other choices exist outside of the allotted tables. There is some choice but not much really. It's not indentured servitude per se but an offer one can't refuse. Choice and freedom are illusions.

C. Yes, one will have to choose one of these tables so I chose China's set of tables and found they offered a better deal to me in more ways then one. Not 100% what I desire but life is about give and take. Let's quit lying to ourselves and each other about all the freedom and choices we have in the USA when it is not so.

D. Besides, we're getting off topic. Should a person be provided a living if they can't work. Is the community around a person who can't work morally obligated to provide them a living especially if they claim they're Christians or followers of Christ? Looking at the scriptures I believe the answer is yes. In fact, if they can be made to work then the community has every obligation to pave the way to where they can by removing the obstacles to work.

Another thing, let's say a person does as you say and learn to love simply having a job and get back to work. Let's say a person follows your advice. He aces the interviews and personality tests and that's a big if right here. He is in a job he hates yet he loves having a job period, works as hard and diligently as he can. He knows he can't get a job outside of this. He does everything you advise him to do and conducts his conduct and attitude accordingly to your advice. One day he finds he is fired and/or laid off for some reason or no reason at all.

Now what?

Fnord, your advice sucks because your advice only covers a small piece of the entire issue. Sometimes the issue is not completely you. Sometimes the issue is other people, employees and the culture itself. Sometimes it can be other things outside of you that one can't work around or fix.

Even Covey talks about the circle of concern vs the circle of influence. But, is everyone's circle of influence and circle equal to each other? Fnord, all you are doing is espousing the same platitudes that our American Individualistic culture spouts out.

I'm fortunate I'm in China right now and I hope I will be fortunate to be able to update my visa. But, can everyone here be able to go to China even before the corona virus? Would they be able to afford the visa fees and flight fees. I'm fortunate to have backing by others in my family. But, does everyone here have the same privilege as I? NO they don't.

You were in the military. You were able to pass all of the psych tests, go through all of the basic training and understand the drill sergeants when they were screaming at you. You were able to keep up with the rest of your unit when you all did the marching drills. You were able to use the military as a springboard for your successful life. Now, it's not so simple anymore. The military is more exclusive about who it selects.

And, the military trains for war. Have you ever fought in a war Fnord? Where in a battle all kinds of chaos was going on around you. Somehow your aspie mind was able to deal with that.

Fnord, you have privilege whether you want to hear it or not as do I. You are able to do certain things a number of us can't. And, I can do things others here can't do as well. It wasn't just your hard work, tenacity, and your attitude that got you and kept you employed. You have certain things that are innate to you that we don't have. This whole American "pull yourself by your bootstraps" is BS.

I’m concerned that this might become an America vs China thing, and given we have many patriotic Americans here, that might be a little heated.

What support does China offer the unemployed?

Which is not the intent of the topic here.

As for your question, I don't know.

Truth is, I'm looking out for me and my family. Screw patriotism. Screw Nationalism. When my family and I celebrate the 4th of July we celebrate we're around and can break bread together.