Is "sluggish schizophrenia" just a Soviet concept?

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Thats what I used to think. But kraftie said something different, namely



Now, you and him can't both be right. Because you are saying it were severely autistic that were diagnosed with childhood schizophrenia, and he is saying it were the milder ones that had that diagnosis. I am not sure who is right though, I am kinda wondering in both directions. What do you guys think?

Infantile autism was a very narrow and definite diagnosis. You had to have all the symptoms. And you probably wouldn’t be diagnosed with it if you talked.

Childhood schizophrenia was considered a vague and broad diagnosis even 50 years ago.

The same can be said about people with Schizotypal Personality Disorder diagnosis today. It is "theorised" that it is a milder version of schizophrenia and some of them will go on to develop it, but in actuality there are plenty of schizotypals that never develop schizophrenia. The diagnosis of schizotypal personality disorder is based on "odd beliefs that don't fit cultural norms", and the diagnosis of "sluggish schizophrenia" is probably similar -- except that odd believes includes (but by no means limitted to) odd political beliefs.

Maybe that is what happened: Schizophrenia diagnosis narrowed down, while autism diagnosis broadened up? If both were narrow, then Asperger won't fit into either. But if one is narrow the other is broad, then Asperger would fit into whichever one that is broad. So since schizophrenia was broad in the past while autism is broad nowdays, thats why Asperger "travelled" from schizophrenia to autism.

Asperger’s Syndrome never was associated with schizophrenia.

Schizotypal Personality Disorder could be said to be more a “neurosis”—whereas full schizophrenia is a psychosis.

But weren't you saying that the milder autism was associated with schizophrenia? If so, wouldn't Asperger be included in that?



I thought neurosis would be things like OCD.

I was always assuming that neurosis and psychosis are "different directions" as opposed to different levels of severity. So if schizotypal is in the "schizophrenia direction" as opposed to "OCD direction" then it can't be classified as neurosis.

Or am I misunderstanding something?

There was no “milder” autism in the 1970s.

Asperger’s Syndrome was theorized in the 1980s, based upon a rediscovery of the papers of Hans Asperger, who called it “autistic psychopathy” in the 1940s. “Psychopathy,” to Asperger, had nothing to do with modern-day psychopathy/sociopathy. Then, it was made a diagnosis in the 1990s.

OCD and Schizotypal Personality Disorder are in a similar category. Both are “neuroses,” which are almost always considered less severe than psychoses like schizophrenia.

“Childhood Schizophrenia” was not autism, though some with a severe case of it might fit the diagnostic criteria for infantile autism. The less severe cases were never considered autism at all, not even of a mild variety.

I was trying to compare today's terminology to the terminology back then. Thats why I wanted to take people diagnosed with childhood schizophrenia back then -- and see how would they be diagnosed today. So do you think any of them would receive Asperger diagnosis today?

I don't think so, Tim.
The Soviet Union was a repressive society.
And still is, unter Putin.

in the 60s, i was dx'ed by the kid shrinks as either schizoid or schizotypal [depending on the shrink]. didn't get the AS dx 'til 2003.

My name is not Tim. Where did you get an idea that it was? Were you confusing me with somebody?



I didn't say that it wasn't. But a repressive society doesn't need to invent a label that isn't being used elsewhere. It can take the well known label and use it for its own means. In particular, the fact that the label "sluggish schizophrenia" has been USED by the Soviets to suppress political opposition doesn't negate the fact that this exact label exists throughout the rest of the world (in the form of its synonyms) it just isn't being misused in this particular way.

P.S. I just noticed you said "I don't think so" in reference to my quote that soviets were the first ones to abandone lobotomy. Well, once again, the fact that they were repressive doesn't negate the fact that they might have some good sides (like being the first ones to abandone lobotomy). Don't negate factual information based on your general impression.

Last edited by QFT on 28 Apr 2020, 2:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

I meant some, not all.

I doubt that many of today’s Aspergians would have been diagnosed as having “childhood schizophrenia” during the 1960s.

They would have been thought of as being “eggheads,” “poindexters,” etc. They probably would have been bullied, but rarely diagnosed with a mental or developmental disorder.

Exactly. I am the perfect example of that.

I was the textbook "little professor" (as described by Hans Asperger) when I was a child in the Sixties. Though they sent me to shrinks back then none of the shrinks labeled me as schizophrenic.

Also none of them labeled me as autistic either. AFAIK I didn't have any kind of medical label back then.

Back then the autism label was only applied to the most severely autistic children- folks who today would be classified as "low functioning", or as "level three autistic".

I was finally actually officially dxed as having aspergers (therefore on the spectrum) as a middle aged adult in the 21st century, but that was after 1994 when they officially expanded autism into being thought of as a "spectrum" that included the modern bigger range of people.

Either they would not be diagnosed or misdiagnosed with labels such as spastic, mood disorders, neurotic, hysteria for girls etc.
Most conditions had to be “severe” for one to seek help because there was such a stigma around that. The idea was that everybody has problems you should not burden others with yours. Even as late as the 70s if you went for help it meant that people thought you were “batshit crazy” or that you were rich with too much time on your hands like characters in a Woody Allen film

In the 60s and 70s “high functioning”/“mild” people such as Darryl Hannah and Courtney Love were diagnosed with Autism but it was not common. Autism and Childhood Schizophrenia were conflated back in the day.
Cold parenting? Childhood schizophrenia? How the diagnosis of autism has evolved over time

Understandings change, manuals change but you will always get professionals that disagree with the changes in thinking so the implementation of changed thinking is often inconsistent and lags behind.