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funeralxempire
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21 Aug 2020, 2:45 am

DeathEmperor413 wrote:
Are we really becoming fascist or are we simply a failed state that is now being run by corrupt hardcore capitalists and their clueless enablers?


I worry depending on how your election turns out you might not have to pick, you'll get both.

And my country won't be able to handle the refugee crisis. :(


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21 Aug 2020, 2:46 am

cberg wrote:
So you're going beyond blame shifting into ambiguous misdirection?

It's all blameless when you think your candidate is untouchable.


On the assumption that this was directed towards me: I don't intend to vote for any of the candidates in the presidential election, as doing so (were I able to) may prove slightly illegal.

As a result, I'm more of an objective observer, able to analyse what is occurring without having a vested interest in any particular side, so happy to critise\provide balance to discussions as and where required.

On the assumption that it was aimed at someone else: repeatedly attacking the other side's candidate and then claiming "It's all blameless when you think your candidate is untouchable" does come off as somewhat hypocritical from an objective viewpoint.



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21 Aug 2020, 2:46 am

Romofan wrote:
He is to the right of Donald Trump, and it isn't a particularly close call.

A rather bold claim. Could you name a single area in which Biden is to the right of Trump in 2020? Biden’s positions in the 80s and 90s don’t seem particularly relevant given that they were mainstream views at the time.

Biden’s major flaw is that he has adopted too many positions in response to the far left’s attempts to hijack the Democratic Party.

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Joe Biden's historical legacy will probably rest on his helping to dismantle Roosevelt's New Deal, and on his zealous role as a drug warrior and tough-on-crime legislator.

Perhaps a reasonable thing to write in a biography before he became Democratic nominee for President, but his likely presidency (as the most left-wing president since FDR) will overshadow his lifetime as a legislator.
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He was for the dreadful Iraq War

He isn’t great on foreign policy - he was also opposed to the Gulf War, arguably the greatest American foreign intervention. But as President he should have more advisors than he did in Congress.

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for the mass incarceration of blacks,

Hindsight. The crime bill which ramped up incarceration was widely supported by black communities and black legislators because they were particularly suffering from the effects of violent crime. It’s only with history that consensus has swung against the bill with all its unintended consequences, and improvements in criminology showing it probably wasn’t necessary. But it was a mainstream position.

Today, Joe Biden is against mass incarceration and suggests several meaningful policies to combat it, including $20bn of investment.

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against gay marriage,

Again, a mainstream position in the 90s. However, in 2012 Joe Biden came out in favour of same-sex marriage during the Presidential campaign, and before Obama did (in fact it put Obama under a lot of pressure to say he supported it too).

Today, Joe Biden supports same-sex marriage.


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and against the legalization of drugs.

A mainstream position, particularly in the 90s. Today, Joe Biden supports the legislation of cannabis.

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Against socialized medicine

Leaving aside that “socialised medicine” is a meaningless phrase...

A mainstream position even today. However, Joe Biden supports an expansion of Obamacare and a public option.

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and against busing.

A mainstream view in the 70s and even today. However, you’ve misrepresented Biden’s 70s vote. He did not vote to make bussing illegal, he voted to stop the federal government mandating it.

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One particularly nasty piece of legislation that Biden spearheaded allowed cops to easily confiscate property. The biographer said that property taken from citizens went from a few million dollars into the billions.

This seems to be a rather left-wing idea. It was aimed at fighting drug kingpins but as the safeguards were removed it started being used to go after parents of kids who sold cannabis. Really stupid to remove the safeguards - sure, they protected drug lords, but they also protected ordinary Americans.

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Joe Biden is a neoliberal,

Speaking as a neoliberal - Joe Biden is a good candidate who will vastly improve on Trump, but he’s too left wing to be a true neoliberal. He has a history of being opposed to free trade which is absolutely central to neoliberalism.

Some of Joe Biden’s far-left policies:

- Federal $15 an hour minimum wage

- $400bn “buy American” campaign

- $10,000 of student loan debt forgiveness.

- Two years of free college

- $2.25trn investment in healthcare

- Reversing cuts to corporation tax

(I happen to think his proposed spending on pre-school, energy innovation, and prison reform are sensible, likely to be highly efficacious, and necessary. They would doubtless also appeal to the sections of the far-left that aren’t constantly purity testing).


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foreign policy hawk,

Again this seems to strip out all the nuance. Biden has a history of both dovish and hawkish views. He was the dove in the Obama White House, and opposed the Gulf War and even the assassination of Osama Bin Laden.

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Millions of dollars have flowed to his brother and children from places like Communist China and the Ukraine.

He has a family who have jobs?! Unacceptable.



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21 Aug 2020, 4:25 am

You know what I think of Biden


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21 Aug 2020, 4:39 am

Walrus is apparently the WP video game boss. Vanquish the opposition, and he appears...


Donald Trump lent Jesse Jackson (and Al Sharpton!) cash, and donated a campaign headquarters to Jesse.

Joe Biden was the single biggest Congressional foe of Jackson's 1984 run for the Presidency, a fact which every black Ameerican should remember. Biden undermined Jackson, and ruled out Jesse as a VP if he won.

Biden was a warrioir against the busing of black kids into white communities.

Biden backed several measures barring any federal money from being used in abortions. He told a reporter that he "disliked" Roe vs Wade. Later, "I do not view abortion as a choice and a right. I think it's always a tragedy"

Biden repeatedly invoked Delaware's history as a "slave state" to make his case to Southern voters. Quote: We only fought for the Union because we couldn't figure out how to get to the South

Biden partnered with uber-Racist Strom Thurman to push the Compreeensive Forfeiture Act, looting black communities of millions of dollars.

Biden pushed the law that made crack cocaine distribution 100 times more punishable than the distribution of regular cocaine.

Biden is an architect of the notorious Patriot Act

Biden voted for the Secure Fence Act of 2006 to build...a Wall across the Mexican Border. I suppose that ties him with the Donald


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21 Aug 2020, 4:53 am

I note that you once again haven’t offered any evidence to support your claim that Joe Biden is to the right of Donald Trump.

In 1984 Jackson was opposed by multiple Congressmen, most significantly Gary Hart who came second behind Mondale. Presumably you mean 1988, when Biden ran for the Presidency. An easy and insignificant mistake. Here are Biden’s famous words about Jackson, delivered to a mostly black audience:

Quote:
“We must reject the voices in my party who say — and you’ve heard it time and again — 'Much progress has been made, and now, now we must wait for the Reagan revolution to run its course.'”

“But just as I and many other white leaders reject the voices of those who are calling for caution, you must reject the voices in this movement who tell black Americans to go it alone, who tell you that coalitions don’t work anymore, that whites and Catholics and Jews no longer care about the problems of black America, that only black should represent black.”


So, anything to say about Joe Biden’s current policies, or is misrepresentations of decades-old policies all you have?

It’s not quite “Kamala Harris is bad because she might be descended from a slave owner” but it’s heading in that direction.



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21 Aug 2020, 5:29 am

vermontsavant wrote:
You know what I think of Biden



No we don't; you might have changed your mind in some way. Thus, this doesn't say anything!


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21 Aug 2020, 6:39 am

envirozentinel wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
You know what I think of Biden



No we don't; you might have changed your mind in some way. Thus, this doesn't say anything!

You just locked my anti-Biden thread
If you have not read my posts: I don't like Joe Biden.Point clarified.


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envirozentinel
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21 Aug 2020, 6:53 am

Ah OK; it was because of members squabbling and bickering on the thread.


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21 Aug 2020, 7:29 am

I'm also having a hard time seeing exactly *what* people specifically have against Joe Biden's political views...

- Are they against Biden because they disagree with his policy positions 25 years ago?
- Are they against Biden because they disagree with his policy positions today?
- Are they against Biden because they disagree with his policy positions during the Middle Ages, when he was middle age?



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21 Aug 2020, 7:32 am

cberg wrote:
I'm kind of unnerved how many hard-right Aussies feel compelled to impose uninformed, political violence slanted opinions on a site that's just trying to help people wherever they are. We have a president who uses a social networking fad to instigate riots during a pandemic man.


I have noticed the loudest voices about US politics on this site ( pro or con ) are not located in America.


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21 Aug 2020, 7:36 am

Oh_no_its_Ferris wrote:
cberg wrote:
I'm kind of unnerved how many hard-right Aussies feel compelled to impose uninformed, political violence slanted opinions on a site that's just trying to help people wherever they are. We have a president who uses a social networking fad to instigate riots during a pandemic man.


I have noticed the loudest voices about US politics on this site ( pro or con ) are not located in America.
I have noticed this too,maybe Americans who have to live with our currant political state have gotten apathetic and given up.I think a lot of Americans have just stopped caring.


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21 Aug 2020, 7:38 am

GGPViper wrote:
I'm also having a hard time seeing exactly *what* people specifically have against Joe Biden's political views...

- Are they against Biden because they disagree with his policy positions 25 years ago?
- Are they against Biden because they disagree with his policy positions today?
- Are they against Biden because they disagree with his policy positions during the Middle Ages, when he was middle age?

I don't know if you're American, but the simple fact is that many Americans passionately despise Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and anybody associated with those three, one of whom is Joe Biden. The reasons for hating them are irrelevant and debating those reasons is a waste of breath.


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Last edited by envirozentinel on 21 Aug 2020, 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.: irrelevant and potentially racist comments

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21 Aug 2020, 7:39 am

envirozentinel wrote:
Ah OK; it was because of members squabbling and bickering on the thread.
Yes I saw how the thread started to degenerate,locking was a good call,cberg basically threadjacked it.


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21 Aug 2020, 7:41 am

GGPViper wrote:
I'm also having a hard time seeing exactly *what* people specifically have against Joe Biden's political views...

- Are they against Biden because they disagree with his policy positions 25 years ago?
- Are they against Biden because they disagree with his policy positions today?
- Are they against Biden because they disagree with his policy positions during the Middle Ages, when he was middle age?
He was part of the old senate judiciary committee elite and was a long time senate insider and elitist.


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21 Aug 2020, 7:48 am

vermontsavant wrote:
GGPViper wrote:
I'm also having a hard time seeing exactly *what* people specifically have against Joe Biden's political views...

- Are they against Biden because they disagree with his policy positions 25 years ago?
- Are they against Biden because they disagree with his policy positions today?
- Are they against Biden because they disagree with his policy positions during the Middle Ages, when he was middle age?
He was part of the old senate judiciary committee elite and was a long time senate insider and elitist.

Yet your reply tells me nothing about what you specifically disagree with Joe Biden about…