24 Dec 2020, 8:42 am
The_Face_of_Boo
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Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 42
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,051
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.
24 Dec 2020, 10:28 am
roronoa79 wrote:
Forcing Muslim women to wear head coverings with legal or social consequences? Anti-feminist and not okay.
Forcing Muslim women to not wear head coverings with legal or social consequences? Anti-feminist and not okay.
Forcing Muslim women to not wear head coverings with legal or social consequences? Anti-feminist and not okay.
The whole concept and purpose of hijab/niqab, according to Islamic theology, is anti-feminist. I can't see how it can be empowering in any way. If it is, how comes women of non-Muslim cultures never choose to wear it? Is it only by coincidence that Muslim women may feel 'empowered' by it? It is like circumcision, it's completely thought to be acceptable because forefathers and customs say so and old habits are hard to die.
If there's a law that forbids it, or at least limits its min age, that ret*d tradition will die out in those cultures with no return. This 'debate' that we are doing now, would no longer exist.
24 Dec 2020, 10:50 am
24 Dec 2020, 11:02 pm
Mona Pereth wrote:
Here in the West, we should support the rights of Muslim-background women both to wear it AND to not wear it, as they themselves choose.
Politically incorrect older guy here.
The hijab is divisive and discriminative.
There should only be citizens of humanity.
24 Dec 2020, 11:08 pm
Mona Pereth wrote:
Here in the West, we should support the rights of Muslim-background women both to wear it AND to not wear it, as they themselves choose.
The full monty head covering is a form of depersonalisation, in most instances.
Just my opinion, but hey, my opinions are solid gold.
24 Dec 2020, 11:11 pm
Mona Pereth wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Carrying this further, we should also support everyone's right to wear whatever religious symbols they choose, from tiny golden crosses and Stars of David to inverted pentagrams and devil's horns.
Fully agreed, except for a quibble about describing point-down pentagrams as "inverted." Pentagrams in various orientations -- point-down, point-up, and point-sideways -- are all symbols in their own right that have been around for thousands of years, with a variety of different meanings.
For example, here is a pentagram in the Jaffa Gate of Jerusalem. And here is the ancient city seal of Jerusalem.
For more about the history of the pentagram, see History of the Pentagram: Symbol of Ages by Dustin Jon Scott. See also The Pentagram on the website of the Masonic Grand Lodge of British Columbia and Yukon.
EDIT: See also The multi-purpose pentagram on the website of the Masonic Grand Lodge of Rhode Island.
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
I am with abolishing it altogether; especially the niqab.
Hiding your facial identity is no longer a "freedom of choice".
Hiding your facial identity is no longer a "freedom of choice".
Agreed.
Last edited by Pepe on 24 Dec 2020, 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
24 Dec 2020, 11:14 pm
madbutnotmad wrote:
I have no problem with people doing what they feel is right.
I mean, what difference does it make to me.
If it makes these people happy either way, then surely that is good.
What ever they think is good.
Just out of interest, some years ago, I read a book written by an ex-nun who wrote a book on the history of Islam.
Interestingly enough, wearing of the hijab never a requirement by the Prophet Muhammed, but it was a trend that was started by one of his wives, that was copied by others (like growing a beard for men).
I guess its similar to why during their time, people who supported Hitler grew little moustaches, people who supported Lenin grew chin beards, people who like John Lennon of the beatles wore round glasses.
Not actually law but a trend.
But like i say, what ever floats your boat and what ever makes you happy.
Although I have to say, I love admiring the beauty in woman, and many of the woman who wear hijabs are indeed extremely beautiful, but i have no problem sacrificing this privilege if it makes others happy.
I understand that Muslims living in western culture may feel awkward wearing hijab, but they are who they are,
so I personally have no problem with them wearing what makes them happy regardless as to why.
I personally am more offended by others who force others to do what they want, rather than accepting others.
I mean, what difference does it make to me.
If it makes these people happy either way, then surely that is good.
What ever they think is good.
Just out of interest, some years ago, I read a book written by an ex-nun who wrote a book on the history of Islam.
Interestingly enough, wearing of the hijab never a requirement by the Prophet Muhammed, but it was a trend that was started by one of his wives, that was copied by others (like growing a beard for men).
I guess its similar to why during their time, people who supported Hitler grew little moustaches, people who supported Lenin grew chin beards, people who like John Lennon of the beatles wore round glasses.
Not actually law but a trend.
But like i say, what ever floats your boat and what ever makes you happy.
Although I have to say, I love admiring the beauty in woman, and many of the woman who wear hijabs are indeed extremely beautiful, but i have no problem sacrificing this privilege if it makes others happy.
I understand that Muslims living in western culture may feel awkward wearing hijab, but they are who they are,
so I personally have no problem with them wearing what makes them happy regardless as to why.
I personally am more offended by others who force others to do what they want, rather than accepting others.
When my family migrated to Australia, they became Australians.
I think you can see where I am going with this.
24 Dec 2020, 11:18 pm
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
All those women are so gorgeous.
Are there ever homely Muslim women?
Are there ever homely Muslim women?
Selection bias, ugly people like us are less likely to post their photos :p.
And yet it doesn't stop you posting with that avatar. Brrrr.
24 Dec 2020, 11:29 pm
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
I am with abolishing it altogether; especially the niqab.
Hiding your facial identity is no longer a "freedom of choice".
Hiding your facial identity is no longer a "freedom of choice".
We should arrest them...and force them to remove their face coverings.
And then...immediately arrest them AGAIN... for NOT wearing a medical face mask against Covid 19!
O boy, we wanted to liberate, instead we f****d it up.
My point stands though, I don't think hijab is to be compared with wearing religious symbols such as cross and pentagram, which is totally harmless.
In the 90% of cases, it is due to familial and institutional* pressure and brainwashing- I am not convinced that very young women put it due to conscious personal 'enlightenment' . At least I think it should be totally forbidden, by law, for girls less than 18, maybe even 20, to wear any form it, even if they claim to be a personal choice (because it's 100% certain that isn't) and punishes anyone trying to force them so.
* Radical movements like the Muslim brotherhood.
I remember well that around 20-30 years ago, only women over 50 wore hijab, traditionally they wore it only after doing the pilgrimage and choosing when to do pilgrimage was totally a PERSONAL CHOICE. It requires a bit of fighting with iron fist to reverse backwardness, total democracy does not work with Islamists, leave the leash too loose and they devour you in no time.
I read somewhere that these coverings was to make females less attractive.
The implication is that males can't control their sexual avarice.
Rather insulting, imo.
Also: Being less attractive defies human instinct.
Most animals work on the principle of attracting a mate for the porpoise of reproduction. [squeak]
What we have here is cultural interference of a seemingly natural and benign biological inclination.
The_Face_of_Boo
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Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 42
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,051
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.
25 Dec 2020, 2:22 am
Pepe wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
I am with abolishing it altogether; especially the niqab.
Hiding your facial identity is no longer a "freedom of choice".
Hiding your facial identity is no longer a "freedom of choice".
We should arrest them...and force them to remove their face coverings.
And then...immediately arrest them AGAIN... for NOT wearing a medical face mask against Covid 19!
O boy, we wanted to liberate, instead we f****d it up.
My point stands though, I don't think hijab is to be compared with wearing religious symbols such as cross and pentagram, which is totally harmless.
In the 90% of cases, it is due to familial and institutional* pressure and brainwashing- I am not convinced that very young women put it due to conscious personal 'enlightenment' . At least I think it should be totally forbidden, by law, for girls less than 18, maybe even 20, to wear any form it, even if they claim to be a personal choice (because it's 100% certain that isn't) and punishes anyone trying to force them so.
* Radical movements like the Muslim brotherhood.
I remember well that around 20-30 years ago, only women over 50 wore hijab, traditionally they wore it only after doing the pilgrimage and choosing when to do pilgrimage was totally a PERSONAL CHOICE. It requires a bit of fighting with iron fist to reverse backwardness, total democracy does not work with Islamists, leave the leash too loose and they devour you in no time.
I read somewhere that these coverings was to make females less attractive.
The implication is that males can't control their sexual avarice.
Rather insulting, imo.
Hence why nothing is “empowering” or feminist about it, that’s a false narrative.
The mindset to believe that men can’t control themselves is dangerous.
Apparently hijab is failing big time to empower women where it is most common.
