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ironpony
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21 Feb 2021, 8:24 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
There are several going on now but just not in the traditional ways.

Obviously, we are to seeing the idea of accepting election results and settling issues via elections and legislation rapidly eroding.

Our view of who we are as a country is rapidly changing from one based on or at least the goal of freedom and rights to America's central characteristic from the get-go has been toxic white male supremacy.

The philosophy behind old saying " "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" is quaint at this point.

There is the gender identity social revolution which is worldwide.


But this is what I don't understand. It seems that American culture use to love elections and you use to love freedom of speech. Americans way back in the past came to America because they wanted to get away from all that election-less, freedom-less society. A lot of people immigate to the US to get away from that society.

But now the idea of elections is bad, and freedoms such as speech is bad, and so many Americans want to go back to the old ways, that their ancestors were trying to escape from? Why are the old ways good all of a sudden now?



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21 Feb 2021, 8:30 pm

ironpony wrote:
But now the idea of elections is bad, and freedoms such as speech is bad, and so many Americans want to go back to the old ways, that their ancestors were trying to escape from? Why are the old ways good all of a sudden now?

I wouldn't know where to start.


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ironpony
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21 Feb 2021, 8:39 pm

That's what my friend said too. He said that the US is in dire need of a coup, and I asked my and he said he wouldn't even know where to start. But without elections and without freedoms such as speech freedom, there will be less freedom for everyone, so how is less freedom of what you can say, or who you can elect, a good thing? If people say they wouldn't know where to start, how can any coup be a good one, if people can't even seem to answer why they feel they need one?



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21 Feb 2021, 8:47 pm

So USA has freedom of speech and elections ....those things are reserved for the very wealthy unless you piss off the media . Then the money than runs the media , Has the power . And this is or has all the appearances of being a free country . But this is just my personal experiences ... but it always looks better looking from the outside in .
Just my humble opinion.


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ironpony
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21 Feb 2021, 8:53 pm

I'm not American, but in Canada, we have freedom of speech and elections as well. But they are not reserved for the wealthy, because I can vote if I choose to, and say what I want, even though I am not wealthy. Can't none-wealthy people do that in the US as well?



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21 Feb 2021, 9:06 pm

In the USA you can say things as long as they don’t offend officials .. if they do you may just find yourself in a bad way courtesy of people they employ to harass or set you up to appear to be a criminal . Then criminalize you .
At which point you will lose more of those civil rights . But you might not know who is related to one of those officials in one way or another . But , just my own humble opinion. These are things I have seen or personally experienced.
Had seen a close personal relative lose their life for upsetting a few connected people , And he hardly knew these people . Except at a distance . Gotta be careful how you exercise your rights here .


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ironpony
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21 Feb 2021, 9:15 pm

Oh okay, I am sorry to hear that. But in the US people say things all the time about officials they do not like on social media and they don't seem afraid.



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21 Feb 2021, 9:29 pm

You mean like how the president of the United States got his Twitter account banned or were you talking about something else . Having lived through these experiences of my own .You might find out different after living in the same place a few years in the USA . In my humble opinion.


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ironpony
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21 Feb 2021, 9:42 pm

Oh okay, but I thought that a lot of Americans in the US prefer more restricted speech so wouldn't they be in favor of things like people not being able to say what they mean on twitter?



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21 Feb 2021, 9:53 pm

How do you mean the idea of freedom of Speech..... nobody vote about twisty addressing freedom of speech.
That was just what I wrote about earlier .... media controlling , what people believe or think ..
Curbing freedom of speech and just outright having good manners can be addressed as two different ideas.imho.


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21 Feb 2021, 10:37 pm

Oh okay sorry, so you are saying that the media is the real problem then?



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21 Feb 2021, 11:06 pm

People who have enough backing and money control the media ,, but I am not expressing the issue well enough to give you a proper answer . Sorry about that . But I don’t think there will be any revolution , here in the USA


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21 Feb 2021, 11:19 pm

Oh okay. I just thought if Americans actually were successful at a coup that that might make things worse than better though, unless it really wouldn't.



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21 Feb 2021, 11:40 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
There is the gender identity social revolution which is worldwide.

That's one that I really don't understand. To me it just seems like unnecessary complication. I've come to the conclusion that "it's a generational thing" and that it's best that I just leave it at that. I have to say though, it feels really odd to be on the "older generation" side of a generational thing at the age of 30-something...

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
It will be interesting to watch this year and next year to see how this shift goes but, optimistically, I could see this going in a direction where more people have a deeper sense of what they need to watch their own backs on, teach their kids about, and we might be able to move forward in a direction where media isn't a hot mess.

I sure hope so, but the world is so crazy these days that it's really difficult to even imagine what even the very near future will be like. And, surprisingly, covid isn't even the main factor at that.


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ASPartOfMe
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22 Feb 2021, 6:23 am

ironpony wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
There are several going on now but just not in the traditional ways.

Obviously, we are to seeing the idea of accepting election results and settling issues via elections and legislation rapidly eroding.

Our view of who we are as a country is rapidly changing from one based on or at least the goal of freedom and rights to America's central characteristic from the get-go has been toxic white male supremacy.

The philosophy behind old saying " "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" is quaint at this point.

There is the gender identity social revolution which is worldwide.


But this is what I don't understand. It seems that American culture use to love elections and you use to love freedom of speech. Americans way back in the past came to America because they wanted to get away from all that election-less, freedom-less society. A lot of people immigate to the US to get away from that society.

But now the idea of elections is bad, and freedoms such as speech is bad, and so many Americans want to go back to the old ways, that their ancestors were trying to escape from? Why are the old ways good all of a sudden now?


One reason is that Americans are and never were as exceptional as they think they are. The founding fathers understood that that is the reason they put in checks and balances which has held so far(the insurrection was not successful).

Another reason is that American schools deemphasized civics so many Americans don't know what exactly freedom of speech is or if they do why is there not a hate speech exception. They see checks and balances both as in the way of inevitable progress and as a system put there to maintain white supremacy.


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22 Feb 2021, 6:35 am

I’m sorry you’ve had personal experiences with oppression, Jakki. I believe people should have the right to dissenting views without repercussions—as long as they don’t directly advocate overthrow of the government.

In general, we have much more freedom to express dissenting views than most countries. We are not required to carry ID all the time, unlike a nation such as France.

I said some very nasty things about Trump when Trump was President. I never suffered repercussions because of it. Repercussions would have happened had I been employed by an avowed Trump supporter who believes in the Qanon crap.

Trump desired less personal freedom, and less freedom of the press. Truth became lies under Trump...and lies became truth. Many people fell under the spell of Trump because they didn’t bother to THINK.