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TheRobotLives
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02 Mar 2021, 12:54 am

Modern cancellations seems more personal and vicious.

They may call your employer and demand you be fired.


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02 Mar 2021, 12:58 am

TheRobotLives wrote:
Modern cancellations seems more personal and vicious.

They may call your employer and demand you be fired.


Plenty of people lost their jobs, then couldn't find employment, when the right had accused them of being communists in the 1950's, and were hounded by said righties for years to come. That's much more vindictive, in my opinion.


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02 Mar 2021, 5:03 am

Hollywood_Guy wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
You forgot the Parents Television Council. For me, it's personal against them. They go after my favorite genre of TV: animated sitcoms. To the PTC, it's as bad as porn.

Animated sitcoms (especially the Simpsons and South Park), and finding a fanbase for them, are the main reason I am trying to move to Seattle (after being priced out of NYC and the SF Bay Area, and which I've discussed in other threads).


I understand when you talk about the Parents Television Council, but otherwise I don't see the right-wing "cancel" culture as more pervasive or common as it has been on the left-wing, like more recently.

OP bought up the Hays' code, but I don't know if "liberals" back then supported that too.


Certainly in the last half-century+ being against displays of sexuality has been considered "conservative". I don't know if it was any less pervasive back then, a lot of the time it was done more quietly.


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02 Mar 2021, 5:49 pm

Society has always had standards of decency, with the potential for negative backlash when those standards are violated. Apparently this is only became a problem when social conservatives lost the clout to be the ones imposing those standards, now they hypocritically sob that society still imposes standards of decency and now sometimes they're the ones facing backlash.

Clearly it was much more fair when the reactionaries were in charge, those were the good ol' days, according to reactionaries who often still call for boycotts or other consequences for those who violate their (increasingly irrelevant, double) standards.



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02 Mar 2021, 7:15 pm

NightMuse wrote:
Don't put the blame on conservatism for cancel culture. You can't even compare what went on back in the day to what liberals are doing these days. If you don't agree with liberals on pretty much everything--if you dare to have a different viewpoint from them--they will do everything in their power to ruin your life. Conservatives have never done that. The Hays Code? It had nothing to do with cancel culture and everything to do with keeping high moral standards in society, something that I believe is sorely lacking these days. Frankly, I'd rather live in a society that still went by the Hays Code.

That's hilariously naive.

Imagine being a female, black, gay, atheist, communist in the 1930s.

In fact, imagine that today, in Alabama.

America has always had a "conservative hive mind" attitude - you're free to believe anything you like, provided it's the same as what we believe. If you are "other" to that in any way, you have no say, no rights, and no importance.

Also, no right to any social or cultural history: Alabama selective social history

Essentially, the establishment will treat you as sub-human for having the audacity to be anything other than a capitalist, white, straight, christian male.

It's still going on, it's just more subtle these days.



funeralxempire
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02 Mar 2021, 8:13 pm

Redd_Kross wrote:
NightMuse wrote:
Don't put the blame on conservatism for cancel culture. You can't even compare what went on back in the day to what liberals are doing these days. If you don't agree with liberals on pretty much everything--if you dare to have a different viewpoint from them--they will do everything in their power to ruin your life. Conservatives have never done that. The Hays Code? It had nothing to do with cancel culture and everything to do with keeping high moral standards in society, something that I believe is sorely lacking these days. Frankly, I'd rather live in a society that still went by the Hays Code.

That's hilariously naive.

Imagine being a female, black, gay, atheist, communist in the 1930s.

In fact, imagine that today, in Alabama.

America has always had a "conservative hive mind" attitude - you're free to believe anything you like, provided it's the same as what we believe. If you are "other" to that in any way, you have no say, no rights, and no importance.

Also, no right to any social or cultural history: Alabama selective social history

Essentially, the establishment will treat you as sub-human for having the audacity to be anything other than a capitalist, white, straight, christian male.

It's still going on, it's just more subtle these days.


Your logic only seems reasonable if one accepts that people other than cis/het, white Christian men with conservative views have valuable opinions. Unfortunately social reactionaries aren't known for their egalitarian attitudes.



funeralxempire
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02 Mar 2021, 8:14 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
Modern cancellations seems more personal and vicious.

They may call your employer and demand you be fired.


You say that like no one ever got fired for being queer or having non-conforming political views. How exactly was that less personal and vicious?



roronoa79
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02 Mar 2021, 8:40 pm

Cancel culture is fine to the conservative only inasmuch as it lets them punish those against whom they hold biases they use their religion to rationalize.

None of this is to mention conservative parents who 'cancel' their own children for being queer or atheist by disowning them and throwing them out on the street.

I don't hear anything about cancel culture causing the left to force homelessness on their children for being hetero or cis or theist.


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binstein
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05 Mar 2021, 8:24 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
Modern cancellations seems more personal and vicious.

They may call your employer and demand you be fired.


Plenty of people lost their jobs, then couldn't find employment, when the right had accused them of being communists in the 1950's, and were hounded by said righties for years to come. That's much more vindictive, in my opinion.

What you are talking about is McCarthyism, which was compared to the metoo movement by Bill Maher actually, which I happened to agree with, a bit.

But the irony is still there, the left doing a similar thing the right has done before.
Both, the right and left are guilty of restricting freedoms.
The term "microagression" for example (which by its nature is unfalsifiable) is something that the left use, and it tampers with freedom to a great extent.

I am a bit familiar with twitter harassment, people wanting to force their own subjective opinions, when they get offended by something, on other people by force, to the point of wanting to get rid of people having fantasies (thought police), because "is offensive", so yeah, these things are a problem.



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05 Mar 2021, 3:34 pm

binstein wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
Modern cancellations seems more personal and vicious.

They may call your employer and demand you be fired.


Plenty of people lost their jobs, then couldn't find employment, when the right had accused them of being communists in the 1950's, and were hounded by said righties for years to come. That's much more vindictive, in my opinion.

What you are talking about is McCarthyism, which was compared to the metoo movement by Bill Maher actually, which I happened to agree with, a bit.

But the irony is still there, the left doing a similar thing the right has done before.
Both, the right and left are guilty of restricting freedoms.
The term "microagression" for example (which by its nature is unfalsifiable) is something that the left use, and it tampers with freedom to a great extent.

I am a bit familiar with twitter harassment, people wanting to force their own subjective opinions, when they get offended by something, on other people by force, to the point of wanting to get rid of people having fantasies (thought police), because "is offensive", so yeah, these things are a problem.


While the "Woke" crowd definitely do hassle people, they still don't have the power of the government and law enforcement behind them as the right had during the Red Scare days.


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05 Mar 2021, 3:54 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
Modern cancellations seems more personal and vicious.

They may call your employer and demand you be fired.


Customers have been demanding that managers fire employees who dare to offend them in some imagined way for well over 100 years. It's hardly a modern thing. Sometimes the consequences are unreasonable - but a lot of today's problem is people aren't used to having to face consequences, so they feel worse than they are cos they're a new experience.



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05 Mar 2021, 4:03 pm

uncommondenominator wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
Modern cancellations seems more personal and vicious.  They may call your employer and demand you be fired.
Customers have been demanding that managers fire employees who dare to offend them in some imagined way for well over 100 years. It's hardly a modern thing. Sometimes the consequences are unreasonable - but a lot of today's problem is people aren't used to having to face consequences, so they feel worse than they are cos they're a new experience.
One of the earliest know "cancelations" on record occurred when an itinerant preacher incurred the wrath of the local religious establishment, which then successfully demanded that the governor of the foreign occupational forces have the preacher executed posthaste.

The preacher -- a man named "Jesus" -- was crucified the next day.

It should be obvious to everyone how well that "cancelation" worked out.


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05 Mar 2021, 8:21 pm

The Right Wing has tried to cancel The Beatles since the band set foot on American soil. One British group that they did manage to cancel was The Kinks. The Kinks were cool enough to be banned from America.


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binstein
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05 Mar 2021, 11:21 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:
The Right Wing has tried to cancel The Beatles since the band set foot on American soil. One British group that they did manage to cancel was The Kinks. The Kinks were cool enough to be banned from America.

The left would try to cancel the 60's Beatles for not being "woke" enough and politically incorrect.

I imagine "You better run for your life if you can, little girl....." or "She was just seventeen, You know what I mean" or "I used to be cruel to my woman I beat her and kept her apart from the things that she loved. Man I was mean but I'm changing my scene. And I'm doing the best that I can" (the protagonist of the song was not metooed and got away with it) would cause a "Cancel The Beatles" reaction and twitter harassment today, way stronger than the "We are bigger than Jesus" thing.



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06 Mar 2021, 12:33 am

binstein wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
The Right Wing has tried to cancel The Beatles since the band set foot on American soil. One British group that they did manage to cancel was The Kinks. The Kinks were cool enough to be banned from America.

The left would try to cancel the 60's Beatles for not being "woke" enough and politically incorrect.

I imagine "You better run for your life if you can, little girl....." or "She was just seventeen, You know what I mean" or "I used to be cruel to my woman I beat her and kept her apart from the things that she loved. Man I was mean but I'm changing my scene. And I'm doing the best that I can" (the protagonist of the song was not metooed and got away with it) would cause a "Cancel The Beatles" reaction and twitter harassment today, way stronger than the "We are bigger than Jesus" thing.


But, as CR notes, it wasn't the left who 'cancelled' the Beatles in the '60s. Your hypothetical is the opposite of what has actually occurred.



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06 Mar 2021, 8:28 am

funeralxempire wrote:
binstein wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
The Right Wing has tried to cancel The Beatles since the band set foot on American soil. One British group that they did manage to cancel was The Kinks. The Kinks were cool enough to be banned from America.

The left would try to cancel the 60's Beatles for not being "woke" enough and politically incorrect.

I imagine "You better run for your life if you can, little girl....." or "She was just seventeen, You know what I mean" or "I used to be cruel to my woman I beat her and kept her apart from the things that she loved. Man I was mean but I'm changing my scene. And I'm doing the best that I can" (the protagonist of the song was not metooed and got away with it) would cause a "Cancel The Beatles" reaction and twitter harassment today, way stronger than the "We are bigger than Jesus" thing.


But, as CR notes, it wasn't the left who 'cancelled' the Beatles in the '60s. Your hypothetical is the opposite of what has actually occurred.

What binstein is saying is that today’s left would attempt to cancel the Beatles if they were a new act.

Never mind The Beatles lyrics, there was John Lennon’s actual life.
We can love Lennon’s music, as long as we don’t defend his abuse
Quote:
In a Playboy interview in 1980, preceding the release of his last album, when discussing the song “Getting Better,” Lennon admitted to abusing his ex-wife Cynthia Lennon, seemingly without much thought.

“(The song) is a diary form of writing. All that ‘I used to be cruel to my woman, I beat her and kept her apart from the things that she loved’ was me. I used to be cruel to my woman, and physically… any woman. I was a hitter. I couldn’t express myself and I hit. I fought men and I hit women… But I sincerely believe in love and peace. I am a violent man who has learned not to be violent and regrets his violence. I will have to be a lot older before I can face in public how I treated women as a youngster.”

People have questioned whether the abuse extended to his son with Cynthia, Julian Lennon. John Lennon left his then-wife and son while Julian was very young, and he was never as close with his first son as he was with his second son Sean and second wife Yoko Ono.

In an interview, Julian did not confirm or deny abuse claims, but he called his father a “hypocrite,” stating, “Dad could talk about peace and love out loud to the world but he could never show it to the people who supposedly meant the most to him: his wife and son. How can you talk about peace and love and have a family in bits and pieces — no communication, adultery, divorce? You can’t do it, not if you’re being true and honest with yourself.”

These facts make it clear that John Lennon was not the bastion of love and peace he is traditionally viewed as, and it raises a moral issue: How can we love a man who caused so much harm?

And he wrote a song with the N-Word in the title.

It is good thing that he got things together and came to regret what he did. Woke cancel culture is puritanical and perfectionist yet there is not now and probably in the future never will be a serious attempt to cancel Lennon by the left. Why? The combination of that he agreed with them and martyrdom because he was assassinated.
.


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