I fail to get why being against abortion makes one sexist

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Fenn
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20 May 2021, 6:24 pm

To paraphrase Gandhi ". . . but what is the use of your dubbing me an enemy of [women]? I will not accept the label."

People who think they should not enforce their views on others should be open to seeing that all laws enforce some will on someone. Every single law. Not enforcing anyone will on anyone else can only be obtained by having no laws.

No laws against rape, no laws against murder no laws against child abuse. No laws about speed limits or theft.

I am pro-woman - I support every woman's right to be born and not ripped to bits bodily. And since I am not sexist I support the same right for all men. No woman should ever be convinced that killing her own child is in her best interest, it is a terrible abuse.

When a child is conceived a live sperm meets a live egg and produces a live offspring. The offspring is genetically unique and uniquely human. It's not a dog or a fish it is a human being. Abortion always kills a living human being. Rhetoric can only hide this fact. The science is quite clear.

As human being and a former fetus I appose abortion.

If you decide to label me as sexist, I will say as Gandhi said, "I will not accept the label".

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funeralxempire
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20 May 2021, 6:33 pm

Screaming you can't call me that is a common tactic when one can't refute the criticism.

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cyberdad
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20 May 2021, 6:57 pm

@Salad, there's a delicate balance between freedom over one's body and the treatment of a feotus.

There is an ethical issue over whether a feotus is a living sentient being which is why some consider it murder. Does the foetus feel pain or does it suffer? we don't know.

Fnord
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20 May 2021, 6:58 pm

salad wrote:

I fail to get why being against abortion makes one sexist.

Then you fail to see why men imposing their will upon women is sexist. Men do not own women's bodies.

Only a woman should decide what she will do with her body.

salad
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20 May 2021, 8:09 pm

Quote:

Yes in Palestinian society women have less rights than men which I condemn. However its deeply offensive and racist of you to always take low blows at me because of flaws in my family's culture and assume just because my family's culture has a view it necessarily reflects mine. I never explicitly condemned abortion on my thread but only stated that calling those who oppose abortion sexist is not necessarily correct. My views on abortion are my own and not the imposition of a culture I reject most of.

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Last edited by magz on 21 May 2021, 4:27 am, edited 1 time in total.: Quoted racist content from other user removed

IsabellaLinton
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20 May 2021, 8:11 pm

Fnord wrote:

salad wrote:

I fail to get why being against abortion makes one sexist.

Then you fail to see why men imposing their will upon women is sexist. Men do not own women's bodies.

Only a woman should decide what she will do with her body.

Wait, so because someone has a penis they can't have opinions about ethics, or their potential children?

I'm pretty sure democracy allows everyone an opinion.

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salad
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20 May 2021, 8:11 pm

Fnord wrote:

salad wrote:

I fail to get why being against abortion makes one sexist.

Then you fail to see why men imposing their will upon women is sexist. Men do not own women's bodies.

Only a woman should decide what she will do with her body.

Abortion to some is murder and that has nothing to do with telling a woman how she can use or not use her body.

Many people who try to commit suicide are stopped, hospitalized and in some countries jailed. This includes the free West that everyone here admires. According to that form of logic the West is engaging in anti-male activity since most people who work on these suicide hotlines, mental health centers and other agencies for preventing suicide are women, and most suicides are men, yet women have no right to tell men what they can do their own bodies. Unlike abortion which is terminating the life of another living being against its own consent, suicide only kills the person attempting it and thus a greater argument can be made that from a bodily autonomy point of view allowing others to commit suicide is more just than allowing abortion.

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IsabellaLinton
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20 May 2021, 8:14 pm

Fenn wrote:

I love this. Thank you.

* Spoken by someone who is female, who has raised a child on her own, and has also been pregnant from sexual assault. I had to face that decision that people banter about like rhetoric. I lost the child and didn't have to decide.

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funeralxempire
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20 May 2021, 8:29 pm

salad wrote:

Fnord wrote:

salad wrote:

I fail to get why being against abortion makes one sexist.

Then you fail to see why men imposing their will upon women is sexist. Men do not own women's bodies.

Only a woman should decide what she will do with her body.

If you don't want to be told that you shouldn't kill yourself you shouldn't call the crisis line. That's literally their job.

That's more like someone calling the anti-choice hotline and complaining they were counselled against terminating. I'm deeply pro-choice but I expect that the anti-choice hotline will council people against abortion.

Whether or not someone's opinion holds much weight is one matter.
Whether or not their opinion should be voiced is another.
Whether or not their opinion should be codified into law in a third.

Even if someone doesn't have much entitlement to voice their opinion that argument is null and voice once you've actively asked for it (like calling the suicide line in your analogy, or the anti-choice counselling line in mine).

Everyone is entitled to have an opinion on everything, even topics they know nothing about, even on matters that don't impact them and do impact others substantially. It's just that those opinions might lack merit and maybe (as a result) shouldn't be voiced loudly (if at all).

The latter two angles are the main ones that matter.

Last edited by funeralxempire on 20 May 2021, 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ironpony
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20 May 2021, 8:31 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

IsabellaLinton wrote:

Are women sexist if they're against abortion?

The act of making abortion illegal is inherently sexist, so yes a woman who supports anti-choice government policies is supporting something that's inherently sexist.

How others might label that individual isn't really my concern.

People can be morally opposed to abortion all they like, that's not really important to me and not something I'd argue is particularly sexist.

Making the choice for other people by making it illegal or nearly impossible to access is what's important to me. Using the state to prevent others from making their choice is a problem.

But I don't see how a woman being against abortion makes her sexist against women. That's like saying that a man who doesn't believe in vecectomies is sexist against men.

funeralxempire
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20 May 2021, 8:37 pm

ironpony wrote:

But I don't see how a woman being against abortion makes her sexist against women. That's like saying that a man who doesn't believe in vecectomies is sexist against men.

I already clarified this, but...

It's not being against abortion that's the issue, so long as one doesn't intend on using the legal system to impose their personal preference on others.

But, denying other women the right to choose through legal measures is still denying women the right to choose. The gender identity of the person supporting those sorts of laws is irrelevant, as is the biological sex of the person who supports them.

ironpony
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20 May 2021, 8:41 pm

Oh okay. But I thought there were enough women against it as well, legal wise, that it wouldn't be just men imposing it upon women, if that makes sense?

But also, why is this abortion thing such a big deal right now with people? As long as you use protection you will most likely be fine, so why the big issue over something that will probably not be a problem in most people's lives?

funeralxempire
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20 May 2021, 9:02 pm

ironpony wrote:

Abortion's been around at least as long as civilization, herbal abortifacients have been known throughout the world since time immemorial. It becomes a big deal when people try to use the state or other authorities to punish those who seek it.

Is it better for women to be involved in stripping other women of their rights? Either way the outcome is women being denied an inalienable right.

ironpony
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20 May 2021, 9:10 pm

Oh okay, I thought people against abortion were in it for feeling bad about the children being aborted, but I didn't think people including women, were against abortion as a screw you to women, so to speak.

funeralxempire
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20 May 2021, 9:16 pm

ironpony wrote:

I don't believe that's the intention or how it's perceived by most people, but the outcome is still the same.

People don't need to think like villains to deny others rights but does the motive matter if the outcome doesn't change?

ironpony
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20 May 2021, 9:17 pm

Oh what do you mean if the outcome doesn't change? Do you mean if the abortion does not work?

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