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General Strike on October 15th

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Fnord
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08 Oct 2021, 10:09 am

QuantumChemist wrote:
OK, so you raise the corporate taxes and then what? Corporations are going to adjust their prices higher to makeup for the tax loss, so who really gets to pay for it? We will go into a higher and higher inflation era overall. That inflation issue eventually causes job losses, those same jobs that you want to be payed better for. Who really wins?
Hey!  I know what to do!

Let us re-assign ownership of all the corporations to the hourly workers, so that they can apply their collective wisdom toward more efficient production without all those educated engineers, entrepreneurs, and inventors getting in the way!

That will show those fat cats who should be in charge!  That will also show how stupid this idea really is!



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08 Oct 2021, 10:11 am

wow , 1st i have heard of this too. it sounds interesting.


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08 Oct 2021, 10:15 am

Yep...in Communist countries, the "proletariat," at least in theory, took over the "means of production."

It was only a theory, though.

In actuality, these governments became more oppressive than the governments whom they succeeded.

I would say the "proletariat" didn't have it so great in Russia under Lenin.....maybe similar to how they had it under the Tsars....it had it much, much worse under Stalin.

Socialism and Communism are wonderful in theory----but, in practice, living under these regimes is at least just as bad as living under a more "traditional" dictatorship.



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08 Oct 2021, 11:06 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Yep...in Communist countries, the "proletariat," at least in theory, took over the "means of production."

It was only a theory, though.

In actuality, these governments became more oppressive than the governments whom they succeeded.

I would say the "proletariat" didn't have it so great in Russia under Lenin.....maybe similar to how they had it under the Tsars....it had it much, much worse under Stalin.

Socialism and Communism are wonderful in theory----but, in practice, living under these regimes is at least just as bad as living under a more "traditional" dictatorship.


Would be nice to have medicine be free for all .. Even if it has to be socialized ......?


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08 Oct 2021, 11:16 am

Fnord wrote:
QuantumChemist wrote:
OK, so you raise the corporate taxes and then what? Corporations are going to adjust their prices higher to makeup for the tax loss, so who really gets to pay for it? We will go into a higher and higher inflation era overall. That inflation issue eventually causes job losses, those same jobs that you want to be payed better for. Who really wins?
Hey!  I know what to do!

Let us re-assign ownership of all the corporations to the hourly workers, so that they can apply their collective wisdom toward more efficient production without all those educated engineers, entrepreneurs, and inventors getting in the way!

That will show those fat cats who should be in charge!  That will also show how stupid this idea really is!


This is an interesting idea but your implementation is wrong. What we really need is to return the corporate vote to the actual stock holders rather than Wall Street. This means that mutual fund share holders should be able to tell the fund managers how they should vote in corporate matters as proxy. This way, the power returns back to the share holder rather than the fund manager who may not have the share holders interest in mind.



funeralxempire
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08 Oct 2021, 11:49 am

QuantumChemist wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
QuantumChemist wrote:
On paper, it sounds good to want all of those things for everyone. Except for the problem: who will pay for it in the end? You can not give that without taking from someone else. I think this event is going to be a dud.


No one's suggesting such things would be free, that's why advocating for raising corporate taxes is part of the agenda. It's probably not going to achieve anything directly, but what other option is there? Counting on the centre-right Dems to advance working class interests clearly doesn't work, they're a part of the problem.


OK, so you raise the corporate taxes and then what? Corporations are going to adjust their prices higher to makeup for the tax loss, so who really gets to pay for it? We will go into a higher and higher inflation era overall. That inflation issue eventually causes job losses, those same jobs that you want to be payed better for. Who really wins?


Clearly neo-liberalism isn't doing much to benefit the average worker, what do you propose? Leaning further into neo-liberalism and making things worse?


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aghogday
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08 Oct 2021, 12:10 pm


One of the Nicest Parts of Occasionally
Visiting An Internet Site for the NeuroDiverse

That Caters to Folks With Extreme and Narrow

Focused Interests is You Will Learn About Stuff

You Likely Never Heard of; If You Are Open Minded

Enough to Get Out of Your Own Head, Which is Also

A Recognized Challenge of Asperger's Syndrome and

Part of Why We Get

Expertise

on Narrow

Niches of Life Interest Here...

"The General Strike on October 15th"
Demanding Many Similar Changes of
The more Progressive Arm of the Democrat Party

In A Quick Research on Google Indicates It is Not Well

Organized And Limited to Social Media Where there

Are Unlimited Distractions to Get Attention for it;

Practically No National
Media Coverage;

Whereas, A Similar
Strike in France Is
Expected to Actually
Disrupt The Machinery of the Country There...

However, The Progressive Arm of the Democrat
Party is Already Mostly Doing this too; So Yes, indeed,

It is rather A 'Redundant' More Silent Effort That Surely
Won't Measure up to What A Part of a Major Political Party
is Already Doing; However, it is Worth Noting That During the

Pandemic Darkness Folks Have Turned More Inward; Shut-Down
From Employment; Shut-Down In their Home; And Masked Away
From Face to Face Expression of Communication in Public At least...

In Doing So, Many Folks Have Already Gone on Strike From What They Did
Before And Have Moved on to Another More Meaningful, Purposeful Way of Employment;

Taking a Break Perhaps in Extended Family Avenues; Or Just Retiring Early And Or Downsizing

NoW As A Best Way To Defeat The Rigors and Insanity of Living With Capitalism is Simply

Not to Buy...

Not To Consume...

Not to Harm, Rape,
Maim, And Kill the

Rest of Living Nature

SO MUCH NOW

We Depend on to Eat,
Drink, And Even BREaTHE NoW For Real...

My Mother Went on Strike From Capitalism
Early On And Survived Well on 500 Dollars
A Month as She Learned Early on Poor in Money That
Happiness Generated Within is All that's Real That

You Will

Guarantee

to Stay Now;

It's Easier not
Buying So Much
if you Have Adapted
To the Insanity of the
'American Way of Over Consuming
The Rest of Nature'; It's Also A Worth

While Endeavor to Save Our Only Home
For Others to Survive and THRiVE iN Consuming Less...

The Face of Capitalism, Cold and Callous, Is Perhaps Best Expressed

By the Sprayed on Orange Trump Face and Sprayed on Hair Of Rudy Giuliani...

Folks Have Seen That Faux Orange Face Peeled off to White; And Yes That Faux Hair

Color Running
Down the

Other

Liar's Face

of Money is God

And Riches of Material

Goods to Buy is King and Queen
And Fool's Gold to Buy of Life...

The Younger Folks have Been
Watching the Old White
Angry Folk's Clown

Show and

They've

Decided to No Longer

Serve Their Steak for Sunday

Dinner After Church; Matter of
Fact, the Most Popular Place for
Steaks Here Ran out of Mashed Potatoes

Last Sunday As they couldn't Find Enough
Slaves at Cheap Enough Pay to Mash the Frigging Potatoes...

Another Popular Hamburger Sports Bar Closed Down for the

Same Reason; Folks Are No Longer Buying the Clown Show;

Not Only Has Trump Killed 'Jesus' in the last Nails Hammered

to his Arms and
Feet Again

Attempting

to Overturn

Democracy on
January 6th, 2021, With
The Jesus TRADEMARK
Name Flying on Banners

High With Gallows
to Hang the Vice
President in Chants
of 'Hang Mike Pence'
For Refusing to Overturn

The Most Secure Assessed
Election This Century by
Trump's Own Officials; Then

Acknowledging The Reality
of Trump's Responsibility
of Inciting An Insurrection

By Way of Both Senate
Majority Republican
Leader and House
Minority Republican

Leader too; Until they
Lost Their Spine Again
And Sold Their Soul Again
For Power and Status to Stay in Political office...

You Might Be Able to Fool An Old Dog With The Same Tricks...

Yet no More Treat of Trick; Younger Folks Are Clearly Seeing How Foolish Now This Clown Show is

And As Usual Younger Folks Are Adapting to the Change Easier As the Older Ones Pass Away...

And Some of the

Other Folks

Have

Just

Said F it,
I'm Out of Here...

For You See, If No One
Wants to Mash the Potatoes

You Just Do it At Home and Consume less...

However, Ya Better Take Care of Ya Health

As There is No forcing Folks to Work in Health
Care Once the Fully Ignorant Have Cr8PPed on Them Enough...

Or Ironically, the Same Foolish Folks in Health Care Who Refuse

to Get

Vaccinated
And Just Get Fired...

It's A New Brave World

If So, i Suggest Everyone

Gather And Grows Some Nuts...

Meanwhile, me and 'Eve' Are Living With The Squirrels
And the Chipmunks in Our Own Forest Garden of Eden
Backyard, House and Car All Paid off With No Loans

Living on the Government Dole of Early Retirement

Practically Naked, Whole, Complete And Enough

All We Really Serve to Do Is Prove that at

Least in One Small Sliver on Earth

There Was/IS Actually A Place

Where Folks Lived/Live

Both in

Heaven

Within

And On The Outside

too; Sure Above, So Below,
Within, Inside Outside, And All Around...

As Sages of the Ages Have Similarly Related
From A Balance of Inhaling Peace and Exhaling
Love From Both The Wisdom Eye of Love and Peace

Clearly Still Touching Yuck, the Bottom of the Pyramid too...

True, There is No Heaven Without Occasionally Visiting Hell too...

The Value of the Whole Pyramid From Top to Bottom, indeed;

It's Not Just a matter

of What Your

Country

Will Do For You;

It's How You Beat

The Frigging System

And Make Heaven ReaL ON Earth...

If You Do; You Will Simply Be Fulfilling

Your Right to Life and Liberty and the Pursuit

of Happiness And Truly Become one Now With
'The Land of the Truly Brave And Loving Free'

No Matter
What

Planet
Hehe

You Land
on Temporarily For Now...

A Mother Deer And Baby Doe
Yes Just Passed By in 'Eden'

Here Outside

my Window

To Forevernow...

It's True, it's Enough,
Naked, Whole And Complete;
Plus We've Got a Little Bit of
A Cold Front in Respite From Florida Heat...

Yet the Secret to True Life Success is Generating
Your Own Seasons and Weather Within With A

Little

Help
From FRiEnDS
And All You
Need is Love

And The Same Wife
Who Cooks Better Than
The Local Empty Mashed-Up-Potato-Place...

Yes, Yes, i Realize it Helps to be Financially Independent too...

If You Played Your Cards Correctly And Are a Little Bit Lucky;

It True
Every Little
Thing is Alright
And Okay Now As A 'Boomer' too...

With All You Need is Love And Again
A Same Wife As A Best Cook; Jesus F in

Christ the Beatles Were Practically Modern Prophets

For Those of US WHO Actually Listened to Their Bible
Messages from the 60's...

-i Am the Walrus

And NOT
The Only One...

And Yes, i am Still on
Strike From The Consumer
Driven Culture of Capitalism
Since 2008 of Not Earning A

God Damned Penny...

My Wife Not So Much; OtherWise

i'd Definitely Be More Than
A Millionaire hehe...

In Deed

i

Still AM...

Similar to
What my
Mother Did too...


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QuantumChemist
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08 Oct 2021, 12:30 pm

Jakki wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Yep...in Communist countries, the "proletariat," at least in theory, took over the "means of production."

It was only a theory, though.

In actuality, these governments became more oppressive than the governments whom they succeeded.

I would say the "proletariat" didn't have it so great in Russia under Lenin.....maybe similar to how they had it under the Tsars....it had it much, much worse under Stalin.

Socialism and Communism are wonderful in theory----but, in practice, living under these regimes is at least just as bad as living under a more "traditional" dictatorship.


Would be nice to have medicine be free for all .. Even if it has to be socialized ......?


Except that medicine would not advance much past that point in time. Pharmaceuticals are willing to take risks to develop new drugs because they might make a profit on them years down the line. Take that away and they will have no motivation to do so. Sure, you will still have medical researchers working away, but for how long will they stay in that profession if they cannot pay their bills? The pharmaceutical industry would not be able to give grants to those researchers. Government money will only stretch so far to pay them.



QuantumChemist
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08 Oct 2021, 12:37 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
QuantumChemist wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
QuantumChemist wrote:
On paper, it sounds good to want all of those things for everyone. Except for the problem: who will pay for it in the end? You can not give that without taking from someone else. I think this event is going to be a dud.


No one's suggesting such things would be free, that's why advocating for raising corporate taxes is part of the agenda. It's probably not going to achieve anything directly, but what other option is there? Counting on the centre-right Dems to advance working class interests clearly doesn't work, they're a part of the problem.


OK, so you raise the corporate taxes and then what? Corporations are going to adjust their prices higher to makeup for the tax loss, so who really gets to pay for it? We will go into a higher and higher inflation era overall. That inflation issue eventually causes job losses, those same jobs that you want to be payed better for. Who really wins?


Clearly neo-liberalism isn't doing much to benefit the average worker, what do you propose? Leaning further into neo-liberalism and making things worse?


No, but going the route you propose will put us on track to someday becoming like Russia in the 1920s-1930s. Not a good time, except for those in power. Communist ideas fault when others take control of your choices and give it to a select few. It is human nature to “save yourself” first and that is what they will do at your expense.



kraftiekortie
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08 Oct 2021, 1:12 pm

I agree that it would be nice to have free medicine for all.



Fnord
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08 Oct 2021, 1:25 pm

Karl Marx described three necessary phases toward achieving his idea of a Communist Worker's Utopia.

Phase 1: A violent revolution must take place in order to overthrow the existing government.  Marx emphasized the nee­d for total destruction of the existing system in order to move on to Phase 2.

Phase 2: A dictator or elite leader (or leaders) must gain absolute control over the proletariat (e.g., workers or working-class people).  During this phase, the Communist government exerts absolute control over the common citizen's personal choices -- including his or her education, religion, employment, and even marriage.  Collectivization of property and wealth must also take place (e.g., the organization of all of a country's production and industry into government ownership and management).

Phase 3: Achievement of utopia.  This phase has never been attained because Communism requires that all non-communists be destroyed in order for the Communist Party to achieve supreme equality.  In a Marxist utopia, everyone would happily share property and wealth, free from the restrictions that class-based systems require.  The government would control all means of production so that the one-class system would remain constant, with no possibility of any middle class citizens rising back to the top.

Marx also detailed the 10 essential tenets of Communism, namely:

• Central banking system
• Elimination of rights of inheritance
• Government controlled education
• Government controlled labor
• Government ownership of agricultural means and factories
• Government ownership of transportation and communication vehicles
• Heavy income tax on everyone
• Property rights confiscation
• Regional planning
• Total abolition of private property

In the Communist society that Marx described, the government has supreme authority through its total control of land, citizens, and means of production.


: : Communism Sucks!



Fnord
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08 Oct 2021, 1:44 pm

demeus wrote:
Fnord wrote:
QuantumChemist wrote:
OK, so you raise the corporate taxes and then what? Corporations are going to adjust their prices higher to makeup for the tax loss, so who really gets to pay for it? We will go into a higher and higher inflation era overall. That inflation issue eventually causes job losses, those same jobs that you want to be payed better for. Who really wins?
Hey!  I know what to do!  Let us re-assign ownership of all the corporations to the hourly workers, so that they can apply their collective wisdom toward more efficient production without all those educated engineers, entrepreneurs, and inventors getting in the way!  That will show those fat cats who should be in charge!  That will also show how stupid this idea really is!
This is an interesting idea but your implementation is wrong. What we really need is to return the corporate vote to the actual stock holders rather than Wall Street. This means that mutual fund share holders should be able to tell the fund managers how they should vote in corporate matters as proxy. This way, the power returns back to the share holder rather than the fund manager who may not have the share holders interest in mind.
That is already possible under the current system.  All that the shareholders have to do is revoke their proxies, attend shareholders' meetings in person, and vote according to their own whims.



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08 Oct 2021, 1:57 pm


"Social democracy is a government system that has similar values to socialism,
but within a capitalist framework. The ideology, named from democracy where
people have a say in government actions, supports a competitive economy with
money while also helping people whose jobs don't pay a lot."

It's Worth Noting That "Social Democracy" Is Neither Socialism or Communism.

It Addresses Social Welfare Within A Capitalist Framework as Identified

Above by Common Definition. A Common Scare Tactic Folks Use

Is Identifying it For What IT IS NOT; Thereby, Scaring

Folks Thinking That Masses Will Be Killed

Like They Were in So-Called

Communist Regimes

Last Century.

Capitalism Is No Longer
Working As The Jobs Have Become
More Automated And Or Empty of Human
Meaning And Purpose; If We Do Not Adapt

And Create Better Ways for Humans to Survive
And Thrive, We All Get to Fall as A Failed Society Next....

Someone is Gonna

Have to Pay

The Price For
Change; in Fact,
Everyone Already Is...

As We Are Still in the Midst
of A Deadly Pandemic That Didn't
Nearly Have to Be This Deadly if Folks
Could Get Their Heads Out of Their Butts and
Cooperate With Each Other ENOUGH To Frigging Save each others lives...

If We Can't Even Do That; Chances Are The Country Will Not Be Viable For Many More Decades to come...

The Last 5 Years, Does Not Bode Well for What The Coming Decades Will Bring Without Dramatic Change...

i Lived in a World Here, Where A Medical Issue Like my Wife Had or Just A Change of Job Meant No

Insurance Coverage; That Much Has Been Repaired for The Common Folk, i Used to Be, Before

Attaining Financial Independence...

Without Social Welfare,

Capitalism

Will Die Here

In This Country

Along With The

Country; There is

No Doubt About That At all...

We Are A Country of Humans; Not Machines...
And Increasingly, We Are Becoming Machines
Without Enough Frigging Empathy to Wanna Help
'The Common Human' Even Frigging Take Their

Next Breath...

Indeed,

A Society

On Life Support
of Soul; THERE IS No Doubt
Now About That Reality NOW in the US...

CHANCES ARE YOUNGER GENERATIONS

Will Eventually Make Change More Possible
Next As They Aren't Nearly As Sucked Up in Myths...

They Understand At Least How to Do a Search Online For New
Information; if They Didn't, They Wouldn't Be able to Even Make it Through School...

i've met Some Young Folks Still in High School, Recently, Who Present Wisdom Far Beyond What

i

Usually
See 'Here';

At Least,
Wisdom With
Some Level of 'Soul'...

And to Be Clear, they
Are Not From the United States;

Sadly That's Almost A No Brainer, 'These Days'...


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08 Oct 2021, 2:05 pm

QuantumChemist wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
QuantumChemist wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
QuantumChemist wrote:
On paper, it sounds good to want all of those things for everyone. Except for the problem: who will pay for it in the end? You can not give that without taking from someone else. I think this event is going to be a dud.


No one's suggesting such things would be free, that's why advocating for raising corporate taxes is part of the agenda. It's probably not going to achieve anything directly, but what other option is there? Counting on the centre-right Dems to advance working class interests clearly doesn't work, they're a part of the problem.


OK, so you raise the corporate taxes and then what? Corporations are going to adjust their prices higher to makeup for the tax loss, so who really gets to pay for it? We will go into a higher and higher inflation era overall. That inflation issue eventually causes job losses, those same jobs that you want to be payed better for. Who really wins?


Clearly neo-liberalism isn't doing much to benefit the average worker, what do you propose? Leaning further into neo-liberalism and making things worse?


No, but going the route you propose will put us on track to someday becoming like Russia in the 1920s-1930s. Not a good time, except for those in power. Communist ideas fault when others take control of your choices and give it to a select few. It is human nature to “save yourself” first and that is what they will do at your expense.


How exactly will raising minimum wage and instituting M4A result in the Soviets taking over? :chin:
Absurd exaggeration is exaggerated and absurd.


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08 Oct 2021, 4:28 pm

^^^^ :D :D ^^^^^


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08 Oct 2021, 6:16 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
https://octoberstrike.com/

There's discussion and planning of a general strike in the US seeking to pursue a 25% corporate tax rate (No loopholes), Free Healthcare for all, 12 weeks paid paternity and maternity leave, $20 minimum wage, 4 day work week and bans on single use and micro plastics, and limited emissions.

Do you believe there will be any significant participation? If so, how do you think it will be responded to?


Can we throw in a unicorn too?