Did the person(s) who wrote the Bible have schizophrenia?

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thinkinginpictures
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15 Feb 2022, 4:41 am

The Bible wasn't written by Schizophrenics - by any chance.

Only very few people could read in ancient times, let alone write.
We're talking about less than 2 % of the total population.

Those who could read/write were very talented, skilled and very educated.

In ancient times, as well as in todays world, authors made use of Allegories.
An allegory is to have people, or mythological creatures representing something else, such as hope, patience, courage etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory

It was meant as an exaggeration to convey a message which people could relate to, and create an epic story which inspires and leaves awe and wonder.

Just like the movies Lord of The Rings and The Hobbit does it. There's no difference, the only thing that have changed is the methods. Back then, they didn't have CGI so they relied on the audience's ability of imagination.

The Bible as we know it today wasn't written in a single year. Rather, it should be compared with todays fan-fiction, but written during the span of 500 years or more.

Take a look at the Wellhausen Documentary Hypothesis.
It's now regarded as science, it's not a hypothesis any more.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentary_hypothesis



cyberdad
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15 Feb 2022, 4:44 am

If you read Ezekiel (my favourite prophet) then there's no doubt the old hebrews were partaking in magic mushrooms.



naturalplastic
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15 Feb 2022, 5:16 am

One little problem.

Psilocybin mushrooms are not native to the Middle East.

I had the idea that magic mushrooms were only native to the New World. So the ancient Hebrews of the Old Testament couldnt have imbibed. But when I checked Wiki just now... thats basically true, but not totally true.

The cult of "Magic mushrooms" was a precolumbian American Indian thing. The Aztecs and Maya used them in rituals in Mesoamerica for thousands of years. Europeans didnt know about them until after Columbus.

But there ARE species of psilocybin mushrooms in the old world however. But theyre found in wet foresty areas. The map in wiki shows them being in Europe, Africa, and parts of Asia, but...nowhere in the middle east.

The Wiki article says there is archeological evidence of using hallucigenic mushrooms in Neolithic Spain with a native Spanish variety six thousand years ago. But apparently no one in Europe used magic mushrooms again until...1799 when a British gentlemen served some specimens of the new world mushrooms grown in a London greenhouse to his family in London - and after eating them the kid wouldnt stop laughing even if after both parents threaten to beat his ass. :lol:

The things you read in Wiki.



cyberdad
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15 Feb 2022, 6:21 pm

You do know Ezekiel wrote his scripture while captive in Babylon.

The hebrews lived among Babylonians and Egyptians both of whom used magic mushrooms.

The use of hallucinogenic substances among the pagan hebrews was rife, During their nomadic wandering they also interacted heavily with various Indo-European tribes such as the Persians, Sychthians and others who use mushrooms.

There is nothing regional or exotic about Psylobicin mushrooms. They spread with cattle along steppe/grasslands and were widespread between Egypt and central Asia,



shlaifu
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15 Feb 2022, 7:39 pm

psilocybin also isn't the only hallucinogenic drug. I'm not really familiar with ancient middle eastern drugs, but there's no rrason to assume there just never was any.
even just moldy grain can contain ergot-alkaloids.

from wikipedia on ergot-alkaloids:
Ergotism is the earliest recorded example of mycotoxicosis, or poisoning caused by toxic molds.[24] Early references to ergotism date back as far as 600 BC, an Assyrian tablet referred to it as a 'noxious pustule in the ear of grain'.[25]


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naturalplastic
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15 Feb 2022, 8:51 pm

shlaifu wrote:
psilocybin also isn't the only hallucinogenic drug. I'm not really familiar with ancient middle eastern drugs, but there's no rrason to assume there just never was any.
even just moldy grain can contain ergot-alkaloids.

from wikipedia on ergot-alkaloids:
Ergotism is the earliest recorded example of mycotoxicosis, or poisoning caused by toxic molds.[24] Early references to ergotism date back as far as 600 BC, an Assyrian tablet referred to it as a 'noxious pustule in the ear of grain'.[25]

I associate magic mushrooms with the New World. But didnt say that they didnt have other hallucingens in the Old World. And apparently there are magic mushrooms in the old world as well. But they would have had to trade far to get them in the Middle East. Folks in the middle ages would accidentally "trip" on bread made from "rusty" grains. Ergot poisoning. There was famous freak modern occurance in the 1950s of an entire French village getting ergot poisoning from bread and acid tripping. A Seventies book was written about it. "The Day of St. Anthony's Fire".



shlaifu
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15 Feb 2022, 9:08 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
shlaifu wrote:
psilocybin also isn't the only hallucinogenic drug. I'm not really familiar with ancient middle eastern drugs, but there's no rrason to assume there just never was any.
even just moldy grain can contain ergot-alkaloids.

from wikipedia on ergot-alkaloids:
Ergotism is the earliest recorded example of mycotoxicosis, or poisoning caused by toxic molds.[24] Early references to ergotism date back as far as 600 BC, an Assyrian tablet referred to it as a 'noxious pustule in the ear of grain'.[25]

I associate magic mushrooms with the New World. But didnt say that they didnt have other hallucingens in the Old World. And apparently there are magic mushrooms in the old world as well. But they would have had to trade far to get them in the Middle East. Folks in the middle ages would accidentally "trip" on bread made from "rusty" grains. Ergot poisoning. There was famous freak modern occurance in the 1950s of an entire French village getting ergot poisoning from bread and acid tripping. A Seventies book was written about it. "The Day of St. Anthony's Fire".


true, and I didn't want to negate anything you said, but rather broaden the discussion a bit.
The art of Hieronymus Bosch is theroized to have been ... caused? inspired? by moldy grain - well, it's hard to find the right term here, because even the theories can't decide whether Hieronymus was deliberately or accidentally tripping...


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naturalplastic
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15 Feb 2022, 11:02 pm

shlaifu wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
shlaifu wrote:
psilocybin also isn't the only hallucinogenic drug. I'm not really familiar with ancient middle eastern drugs, but there's no rrason to assume there just never was any.
even just moldy grain can contain ergot-alkaloids.

from wikipedia on ergot-alkaloids:
Ergotism is the earliest recorded example of mycotoxicosis, or poisoning caused by toxic molds.[24] Early references to ergotism date back as far as 600 BC, an Assyrian tablet referred to it as a 'noxious pustule in the ear of grain'.[25]

I associate magic mushrooms with the New World. But didnt say that they didnt have other hallucingens in the Old World. And apparently there are magic mushrooms in the old world as well. But they would have had to trade far to get them in the Middle East. Folks in the middle ages would accidentally "trip" on bread made from "rusty" grains. Ergot poisoning. There was famous freak modern occurance in the 1950s of an entire French village getting ergot poisoning from bread and acid tripping. A Seventies book was written about it. "The Day of St. Anthony's Fire".


true, and I didn't want to negate anything you said, but rather broaden the discussion a bit.
The art of Hieronymus Bosch is theroized to have been ... caused? inspired? by moldy grain - well, it's hard to find the right term here, because even the theories can't decide whether Hieronymus was deliberately or accidentally tripping...

Oh yeah. Bosch makes Salvidor Dali look like Norman Rockwell! Could be a chemical involved. Or not. We will prolly never know. Lol!



thinkinginpictures
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16 Feb 2022, 2:46 pm

It's so sad to see an aspie forum stooping so low as to talk about "magic mushrooms" in relation to who wrote the Bible.

- Instead of talking about the linguistic and ancient history of the origins of the Bible.
Instead of talking about The Documentary Hypothesis/ancient history and dive deep into the subject (something which aspies should be good at), you're discussing magic mushrooms and schizophrenic causes, which has no reality to the origins of the Bible what-so-ever.



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16 Feb 2022, 3:10 pm

thinkinginpictures wrote:
It's so sad to see an aspie forum stooping so low as to talk about "magic mushrooms" in relation to who wrote the Bible.

- Instead of talking about the linguistic and ancient history of the origins of the Bible.
Instead of talking about The Documentary Hypothesis/ancient history and dive deep into the subject (something which aspies should be good at), you're discussing magic mushrooms and schizophrenic causes, which has no reality to the origins of the Bible what-so-ever.


Do you have any basis on which to make this claim besides moral outrage? Is it really unthinkable or just merely offensive?


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kitesandtrainsandcats
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16 Feb 2022, 3:16 pm

thinkinginpictures wrote:
It's so sad to see an aspie forum stooping so low as to talk about "magic mushrooms" in relation to who wrote the Bible.


I dunno, could merely be a manifestation of the same component of basic human nature which leads the neurotypicals to spout cutesy nonsense names for people and things when talking politics and current events & think themselves such a creative genius for their effort.

Then again I'm probably not any better a person than them when I respond to them with things like, "Wow, fifth grade maturity in a fifty year old package."


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16 Feb 2022, 3:19 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
thinkinginpictures wrote:
It's so sad to see an aspie forum stooping so low as to talk about "magic mushrooms" in relation to who wrote the Bible.

- Instead of talking about the linguistic and ancient history of the origins of the Bible.
Instead of talking about The Documentary Hypothesis/ancient history and dive deep into the subject (something which aspies should be good at), you're discussing magic mushrooms and schizophrenic causes, which has no reality to the origins of the Bible what-so-ever.


Do you have any basis on which to make this claim besides moral outrage? Is it really unthinkable or just merely offensive?


What claim is being made? The only things which I see the text supporting are a statement of feeling and a statement of what intellectual activity is desired.


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funeralxempire
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16 Feb 2022, 3:24 pm

kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
thinkinginpictures wrote:
It's so sad to see an aspie forum stooping so low as to talk about "magic mushrooms" in relation to who wrote the Bible.

- Instead of talking about the linguistic and ancient history of the origins of the Bible.
Instead of talking about The Documentary Hypothesis/ancient history and dive deep into the subject (something which aspies should be good at), you're discussing magic mushrooms and schizophrenic causes, which has no reality to the origins of the Bible what-so-ever.


Do you have any basis on which to make this claim besides moral outrage? Is it really unthinkable or just merely offensive?


What claim is being made? The only things which I see the text supporting are a statement of feeling and a statement of what intellectual activity is desired.


The claim appears to be that it's not possible that psychedelics or delusional disorders could have played a role in shaping portions of the biblical narrative. I'd say it's impossible to dismiss them as potentially in play even if it would also be impossible to substantiate a positive claim that they certainly were involved.


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theprisoner
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16 Feb 2022, 3:25 pm

aghogday wrote:
^^^



"Be formless ... shapeless, like water."

SMiLes, Bruce Lee's Philosophy, in Other
Words "Be God" Flow Like the Rest of Existence

Life of Change in Yin And Yang Way;


Nah, A Sunday
Visit of Singing

Or 5 Prayers a Day
Just Ain't Enough to
Staycation in Heaven WiTHiN Now

Where the Perks Just Never End Now With SMiLes;
However That Requires A Life Without Distractions,
With Financial And Work-Free Independence As It's Likely

If Bruce Lee Enjoyed
That Life Style

He Might
Have At
Least Made it to 33 Years Old...

my Life Didn't Even Really Start Until 53...
The World As It is Here Makes That A Challenge Indeed..:)




I admire Bruce lee. Martial artist, amateur philosopher, yet very westernized.
His doctor said he had body of 18year old in months before his death.
Maybe stress was a factor. Maybe he was under pressure.
But he might have been murdered, or might have been a fluke, I don't know.
One of those freak accidents, like athletes with hidden heart defects, who suddenly die.
He did say he was an athiest, I think. Also might have been a Buddhist in his beliefs.
He certainly made an impact on the world.
Damn I'm 33. Same age as Bruce Lee.
I hope when I'm 53 , I'm wiser, smarter, maybe even healthier (future technology) and better off than now.


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kitesandtrainsandcats
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16 Feb 2022, 3:28 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
The claim appears to be that ...

Too ambiguous and subjective, please provide a direct quote of the writer stating "I claim that ..."


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funeralxempire
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16 Feb 2022, 3:38 pm

kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
The claim appears to be that ...

Too ambiguous and subjective, please provide a direct quote of the writer stating "I claim that ..."


If you don't see a claim being made in TIP's post we can find you a tutor. :wink:


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