Why did NATO choose to rely on Russian gas and oil?

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Pepe
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12 Mar 2022, 6:52 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I don’t know about other nations…..but I know people in the UK with electric cars—and I believe there’s some sort of requirement that cars go all electric by 2035.


As an aside,
I don't have a major problem with electric vehicles, mainly because it reduces dependence on oil.
Here in Australia, if things get nasty with china, xi could deny access to oil freighters to Australia.
Our fuel stocks are hideously low/pathetic.

Just sayin'. 8)



Pepe
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12 Mar 2022, 6:53 pm

HighLlama wrote:
The better question is why do we rely on gas and oil when we know it's harmful.


Do you like "Electricity"? :scratch:



ironpony
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12 Mar 2022, 7:16 pm

Well a lot of people are not buying electric and say it's not as reliable, if that's true?



techstepgenr8tion
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12 Mar 2022, 8:20 pm

NATO still was hanging on to the notion that peace could be secured through trade, and plus Germany had the great idea to go away from fossil fuels and back on to them with Russia as their supplier, which means they now need to either get away from fossil fuels again or get close with Iran and Venezuela. The US as usual is in a safer position with less lost by the embargos but we're also, at least on a cultural level, not as glum or durable as most other cultures and we lose it if gas prices go up anywhere reminiscent of European prices.


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12 Mar 2022, 8:38 pm

It's the logical outcome of their choice to not develop nuclear power (except of course France).


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techstepgenr8tion
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12 Mar 2022, 8:52 pm

MaxE wrote:
It's the logical outcome of their choice to not develop nuclear power (except of course France).

I have to hope they cash in on SMR's (small modular reactors). It's a technology that needs more development and financing.


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12 Mar 2022, 10:05 pm

Pepe wrote:
HighLlama wrote:
The better question is why do we rely on gas and oil when we know it's harmful.


Do you like "Electricity"? :scratch:


I'd rather live in a healthier world than have electricity.



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13 Mar 2022, 2:04 am

But does sanctioning oil and gas from Russia really cause Putin to shake over it? Does Putin actually care or feel threatened by that? Do the corporations in NATO countries really think they have Putin by the b$%4s from doing that?



Pepe
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13 Mar 2022, 2:07 am

ironpony wrote:
But does sanctioning oil and gas from Russia really cause Putin to shake over it? Does Putin actually care or feel threatened by that? Do the corporations in NATO countries really think they have Putin by the b$%4s from doing that?


pootin has *massive* security around him.



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13 Mar 2022, 2:09 am

Since he has massive security around him, why did they think that sanctions would threaten him then therefore?



Pepe
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13 Mar 2022, 2:12 am

ironpony wrote:
Since he has massive security around him, why did they think that sanctions would threaten him then therefore?


He has massive security around him partly because of the pain the sanctions are causing.



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13 Mar 2022, 2:15 am

Pepe wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Since he has massive security around him, why did they think that sanctions would threaten him then therefore?


He has massive security around him partly because of the pain the sanctions are causing.


Oh so your point is that the sanctions have caused him to get more security? Well how is that a good thing then? NATO countries have now made Putin more untouchable now from doing that.

First NATO countries allow Putin to have them by the b^%%s in oil and gas, and now NATO countries have chose to make him more untouchable with their sanctions. Will NATO countries stop trying to keep feeding him more?



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13 Mar 2022, 4:18 am

pootin has a 5,000 bodyguard trained in martial arts.
He hardly leaves his residence at the Kremlin.
He has a food taster.
He has people with devices checking for radiation.
When he goes out, it is in his armoured limousine surrounded by defence vehicles including those that scramble the wavelengths of transmitters used in remote control bombs and drones.

He has good reason to be paranoid.
But it isn't paranoia if it is really happening. ;)



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13 Mar 2022, 5:20 am

ironpony wrote:
Well it seems all the NATO countries are no longer buying Russian oil and gas as the oil and gas prices are now going up in those countries, which means they stopped the trade, unless I missed something? I think it would have had to have been an NATO made decision, otherwise it's too big of a coincidence that all the NATO countries decided to do it at exactly the same time, and it wasn't a NATO decision? Too big of a coincidence to say it wasn't them?


I understand what you're saying. Yes it seems that we're (NATO) made the stupid decision to have such a dangerous country like Russia provide our gas. :roll: I don't think any country should ever let Russia provide anything for us. It is best to have nothing to do with these war countries.

Where are people supposed to get their money from to pay for their gas essentials now?


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13 Mar 2022, 5:36 am

Oil supplies are relatively diverse. Russia is the largest single supplier of oil to the EU, but only makes up about a quarter of imports.

Coal and gas imports are both 40-50% from Russia. So pivoting away from Russian gas will be painful. That being said, if Europe had already chosen not to use Russian gas then 1) it would be dependent upon Qatari and Algerian gas, and 2) the price rises it is now dealing with would have always been an issue.

Of course there would also have been the option of developing low-carbon domestic alternatives, but most of the technology required for mass electrification (like heat pumps and electrolysers) has not been viable until relatively recently, and even today will be expensive to deploy en masse.

Importantly this is not a “NATO” issue, but a “continental EU” issue. The US, Canada, UK and Norway all have solid domestic supplies of gas and Russia makes up a relatively small part of those countries’ fossil fuel mix.



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13 Mar 2022, 6:46 am

Last I heard the banks that handle energy transactions have not been cut from account clearing/ messaging systems and the gas is rushing to the stove burners of German customers like it always did. What you see and hear is political posturing, the sanctions haven't hit the real income yet, if they ever will.