Mammon

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Hell is a state of mind

I don't even believe the Nazis and Hitler would go to hell because the concept of hell was invented as a bogeyman to terrify the 'pagans' into converting to Christianity. Especially when early Christians were threatening to execute these people in torturous fashions for not converting.

And so many Christians now think of the idea of Hell as a way to find comfort in telling themselves that anyone they personally just don't like is "going to Hell" because they wish it on anyone they percieve as their enemy or as being beneath their own deluded sense morals.

All while they view themselves as deserving of Heaven simply because they think believing in Jesus is their Get Out of Jail Free card when they act judgemental and cruel towards anybody outside their cattle cult.

One of the examples of how ****ed up this religiion is in my opnion. I take comfort in knowing we're all headed to the same place when we die which is probably a dark eternal void where nobody is better than anybody.

Olden day christians many millenia ago took a vow of poverty and were willing to martyr themselves rather than revoke their beliefs. They spent their time helping the poor and took just enough to have clothes on their back and enough food to eat.

In the our modern world we make up the rules as we go along. Europeans murdered and tortured millions in the name of christ. The heads of churches have lived in luxury for centuries while their followers live in abject poverty.

But find a middle path. If you think you need a million dollars to maintain a life that is comfortable then that's between you and your maker. Its not up to other people to judge.

Marx came up with the saying that "Religion is the opiate of the people". Faith provides solace to those who don't want to face all of the realities of life. It provides purpose where it's really people just making stuff up, literally improvising and demanding that followers don't question....

The flip side is nihilism where you accept life has no meaning. Therefore it doesn't matter what you do. In that instance you can role play whatever role you see fit.
SJW
Narcissistic leader
greedy businessman
holy man
sex addict
etc etc....

I think Europeans would have been better off today if Christianity had never been forced on them, much like the rest of the world effected by colonization.

Okay thank you.My goal is to start a church that has a community of goods like Acts 2 and Acts 4 but I dont know if I will achieve it.lol.

Marx also inspired leaders like Stalin and Mao who destroyed the religions in their own countries while forcing their people to worship portraits of them almost as Gods.

Go figure...

I'm not sure I'd call that a flipside.

Nature only sees what works, has no moral compass, and in that context favors psychopathy because psychopathy is about algorithmic winning. Any really loose and permissive system, like nihilism, just tips the board even more in favor of psychopathy winning by removing its penalties. Similarly you can do all sorts of things to stomp out Darwinian evolution's nastier edges in a culture, I actually think about an idea that I used to like when weighed against Darwinian evolution (ie. UBI for technological displacement) and realize it would just speed up the breeding differences between unintelligent and intelligent people which is yet another way nature throws the game board in the air and pulls everything back to its metronome.

It seems like no matter what - nature wants things one way, and that's 'whoever is in my kingdom has to run twice as fast to stay in the same place'. I don't know if we'll ever be able to fix that. When we actually subjugate wild animals (physical predators of humans) and diseases sufficiently then nature as its relevant to us just becomes humans vs. humans.

The only thing I can really imagine helping out with that much is us accepting that this is an unchangeable, really reflexive on the structure of how organisms beat each other in competition, and seriously consider shaping our laws to both find acceptable ways for managing this prosocially and being hypervigilant toward ways in which it turns Molochy in the SlateStarCodex sense (ie. what encourages us to kill each other in genetic competition until there's no one left).

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Give a man a fishing rod and he can eat forever.
Convince other men to catch fish for you then you don't have to work a day in your life
It really doesn't matter...communism or capitalism

Don't forget that nature is only one driving factor in human behaviour. You missed human psychology. Plato was exactly correct when he said societies move through cycles but he might not have understood why? If a social system is unsustainable over time it collapses and a new system takes its place. People operate on something called "groupthink" where what was truth in one era is replaced with another truth. Much of this is improvisation and repackaging. So long as it gets the job done.

In ancient times any powerful man would be accepted as leader. So long as he kept the tribe clothed, fed and safe then all good fortune was attributed to this man (whether he deserved it or not). When calamity, famine or war caused the society to be in danger, the leader was sacrificed. It did not matter that he might not have had anything to do with ill-fortunes, but he was whom all blame was attributed.

Well sure - names, faces, and powerholders can flip. Similarly you can have these odd periods where something really orthogonal to Darwinian evolution can crop up - like Christianity and Islam, Freemasonry and it's drive from mystical humanism to secular humanism, John Stuart Mill's brand of liberalism and what some people in GameB spheres might think of as the 'infinite game', but it's always costing a certain amount of energy to... effectively.... run against the Dao.

That's where if things stay the same for enough generations and no one has to sacrifice anymore for those things (ie. why keep pushing), or the broader populace don't see the problems that caused the current values - they leave those values and quite often repeat the same mistakes. I don't know that history ever precisely repeats but civilizational cycles seem reliable in the sense of, as a civilization moves from one part of the cycle to another, greatest advantage in terms of success change hands, toward decadence it's Ponzi builders and scam artists, and things often slowly move down hill from there unless there's something really precipitous like China's halving of population by the end of the century. Similarly if you try to have integrity or be cooperative in a day and age where everyone from the soccer mom to the family dog is a self-styled Machiavellian you get ratioed because you're playing an orthogonal game that people can shoot to pieces at any moment based on it's vulnerabilities.

Groupthink is an adaptive strategy where the idea is you can get all that you 'really' need, plus lots of approval, by simply copying other people. Really its an incredibly powerful strategy because nature likes to see as little effort being spent as possible to get the desired result, a lot of people who become great thinkers or heroes are people nature technically wanted dead and even becoming 'great' society doesn't generally treat them well (thinking of any public heretics and careful rather than reflexive contrarians who will stand up for what's right and won't back down to what they see as power overreaches by tyrannical movements and systems). You also have to figure that in the mating and dating game success clusters in to the center of the bell curve, especially the 100 - 105 IQ range where you're relatively uncomplicated, where society more readily 'gets' your intensions, if you've only ever copied others and rarely surprise anyone you have even more cause to have confident body language because you won't constantly be tripping people's bad/evil non-conform radars, and when you think about how those radars work (ie. you could be a wonderful person or a psychopath for not conforming, but if there's any risk of you being a psychopath I won't talk to you, give you a job, etc.) then there's a blanket penalty for not copying everything wholesale, and copying wholesale is something that's much easier for people with middling IQ because there's less cognitive dissonance.

I guess this gets me wondering - how much can be taken from David Sloan Wilson's ideas which can help reinforce society, such as long term autonomous 'teams' competing with one another to where trust builds within those units. That seems to be the most obvious level of analysis where social trust can be built. Perhaps revitalizing civic organizations could help? It's not all doom and gloom but it seems like our knowledge of what specifically builds social capital, outside of religion, is either really lacking at the moment or it's a question most people can't even think to ask.

Yes if you examine a bellcurve, then those who are most likely to critically question the prevailing norms are on the tail end of the curve, But in terms of numbers they never amount to anything substantive.

Intelligence is not a major factor in groupthink. The human brain is hardcoded to toward social conformity. You forget that German intellectuals flocked to Nazism and they had little dissonance in accepting what was essentially distorted and warped ideology. Why? because indoctrination normalises a response to what is unethical or irrational because the majority of the population coalesce and accept the status quo as normal.

I'll give you another example. Highly intelligent people (your high IQ group whom you elevate in esteem) living in the west are perfectly aware that the clothes/shoes they wear are made by sweatshops or slave labour, the iphones they have contain minerals mined by child slave labour, the coffee they drink is likely picked by slaves and that using petrol fuelled cars contributes toward global warming. Yet with all this data, highly intelligent people happily (and without single regret) indulge in all these activities without slightest concern for whom is exploited or for contributing toward the demise of this planet. HUman beings are capable of compartmentalization and its a lot easier than you think.

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Hmm, my Wife and i Were in the Christmas Candy Aisle
At Walmart, And Noticed The Ladies in Long Church Dresses,
Filling Up Their Buggies With Chocolate and i Noted One Cannot

Serve Both Chocolate
And God Yet of Course

'God,' in the Feel and Sense

iN Doing of Emotionally Regulating
Sensory Integrating in An Autotelic
Flow of Bliss; Embodying Naked, Enough,
Whole, Complete; All Compassionate Love

For All iNHaLinG Peace, ExhalinG LoVE iN JoY

oF LiGHT;

GiVinG SHaRinG
CaRinG HeaLinG

Freely

With Most
Respect and
Least Harm For All;

On The Other Hand, Humans Can And
Will Fall to the Tools They Use to Achieve
Instant Gratification That Are Indeed Mammon

As Other Apes Will Press Levers For Free Cocaine

And Or Sugar Until They Literally Get Sick And Or Die

As Apes, Including Humans, Are Not Evolved Well For Pitfalls

Of Instant
Gratification

As We Allow the

Tools to Master Us,

Instead of Mastering

The Tools to Attain the Real
Bliss and Nirvana in Balancing
WaY iN A Foundation of Loving Grace

That Springs Greatest WiLL and Strength
And Tons of Real Social-Empathic, Artistic,
Real Spiritual Emotional Sensory Intelligences That Are

Yes More Within the Realm of the Right Hemisphere Parts
of Our Mind As the Research of Well Respected, Iain McGilchrist,

in His 10 Years of Research Shows the "Matter With Things" Is

Not Much Different

Than Worshipping

Mammon over the

Real Nature of All that
is Human Potentials Within

to Obtain A Stellar Way of Life

For A Real Kingdom of Heaven Within;

FRiEnDS With GravitY iN Balance for Compassionate

Love For All that Exists in Great Gratitude For this Real

Miracle

And Magic

Of Even the

FACT That As Far

As We See Above, We See
Rocks Too Cold or Hot to Live on In Space

As True We aRe Only Evolved to LiVE oN The Planet

Earth; And On the Other Hand, Humans Regularly Imagine

Nightmares on Earth, Make Them Fruition, And Worship Those

Nightmares For Their Full Living Dead Lives on the Planet Earth

As They Really Believe

That After Death

Is the Best Place to Be

That Trumps Every Lie 'Trump'

Could Even Imagine; Particularly, the

Matthew Part About Changing the Folks Who Are
'Sheep' who Don't Feed the Homeless Person on the

Street into Goats and Burning them Forever; Forgetting

That Some Folks Are Born With No Capacity to Feel the Warm

And Fuzzies, Altruistic Behavior Intrinsically Brings; And The Idea

That Humans Are Evolved Any Less Naturally As Cooperative Than

Bonobos as Research Shows

Is Largely A Result of

the Nightmares We
May Bring to Fruition in

All the 'Religions' We Bond
And Bind over DarK Thru LiGHT;

i Don't Agree with Either the Way
Islam or Christianity is Practiced in this World, Generally,

As It Harms Way too Many Innocent People Still, Overall

Yet on the Other Hand, Some of the Kindest People i Have

Met in this World Are Both Fundamentalist Muslim And Evangelistic Christian

As It's More A Function of Their Humanity at Core than The Religion They Adhere too...

Some Atheists Are Kind too...

Yet What i Do Find is Folks Who

Are More Restricted to Left Hemisphere Way
of Processing The World Now Are More Often

Cold, Aloof, And Distant; And Much More Like
The Living Dead As of Course i've Spent Years

in that Purgatory Through Hell too in Both Genetic

Propensity and The Environment That Brings That Human Reality too...

Generally Speaking, in 'Real Life,' Folks Note i am A Kindest Person they've ever met....

i Understand Where Heaven Comes From; It's Simple, Just F in Be Human, Be Kind And IF 'You,'

Biologically

Speaking,

Are Equipped
For the Intrinsic
Rewards, Heaven Within
Will Naturally Be 'YouR' Reward Only Now;

Yet For Those Incapable of Feeling And Sensing
This Reality, It is Just The Same As Looking Through an Opaque

Window As When i Lived in 'That Place' And No Longer Had the Biological

Capacity to Return to A More Natural Human World Moving, Connecting, Co-Creating

Warmly,

i Had no Ability
to Even Feel the
Warmth Within Petting

A Cat; Basically, the Human
Oxytocin Response That Naturally

Heals Both Pain And Anxiety As i've

Learned to 'Wire And LiGHT Myself Up' ThiS WaY iN Ever Ways NeW iNstead; Yes,
Colors of Warm Nirvana And Bliss Versus The Other Way of the World of More

Mechanical And Cold Cognition as Simon Baron Cohen So Eloquently

Relates Was my Issue that i Managed to Overcome By Basically

Being Reborn,

Integrally Using

Yes Both Art
And Reason,

Becoming Much
More Incarnate
LoVE iN Peace Than A Frigging

Machine as Yes That is What
Folks Used to Compare me to...

A Valuable Commodity to Use at Work...

Fortunately, i'm Financially Independent
And Now i Get to Totally Focus on Being

Peace
And
LoVE iNCaRNaTE;

And As Far as the Old
Bible(s), Written By Innumerable
Ghost Authors With Poetic and
Prose Scripts All Copied And Pasted

Together Over Centuries; It's Like Any Place
of Poetry, There Are Innumerable Ways to Interpret

the Metaphors to Justify Hell to Heaven on Earth and After Life too

in 'Fan
Fiction'
Way of Course...

Here's A 'Thing' Though;
Both Heaven And Hell Are

Real Places of Existence Within

And If 'You' Don't Belief it, You Simply Haven't
Come to the Table iN Piece oF Paper Existence

Or the Table of Plenty Of LoVE iN Peace...

And Enjoyed

Your Fill of

Nil or A Total
Balance of Peace iN LoVE...

This is Nothing New, it's Essence
Of More Mystical Aspects of Religion World Wide...

LiVE iN Compassionate

Love For All Or DO Not At Core...

Yet it Requires Moving, Connecting, Meditating in
Autotelic Flow, Co-Creating Together in Balance of
Peace iN LoVE...

Works for
me at Least,
Every Second of Every
Day Since Getting Out of Hell
113 Months Ago on July 19, 2013...

i Decided to Fix

What Was Broke

And Am Totally Successful Now

Yet there is Always Room Within For

Improving Every Second of Existence New...

Overall, Literal Interpretations of Religions Miserably
Fail to Ascend and Transcend into Heaven New Now ThiS Way...

If They Could Just

Do 'Luke 17:21'
And 'John 14:12,'

They Might Rise Yet

No 'Instruction Manual' is Provided;

And Let's Face it, Some Folks Just Have
No Way to Seek And Find the Answers Within...

i Sure Never Found them in Any Church; in Fact,

The Whole Experience is Antithetical for Success;

However, Wherever one May Find A Communion of

Peace and Love Among Human Kindness That's Part of
the 'Chicken Soup'

That Works;

And i Find
That Everywhere

i Go Around the World,

WHere Folks Find the Answers that Work For them...

Regardless, of Whatever Societal Labels May Be Attached
to The Essence (Peace iN LoVE) of Who They Really Are And Do...

Generally Speaking, We Reflect Back the Positive Energies in Vibrations

And Frequencies of Peace And Love We Generate For Real Or Do The Opposite

of Sunshine

Within And

Get Absorbed

in A 'BLacK Hole
Sun' Within; Just

Potentially, At Least,
Being Reborn As 'Sunshine' Again;

Yawn, As Above So Below, Within
Inside, Outside And All Around ThiS

Ain't Rocket Science; It's Just Doing the

Cooperative Human Nature And Nurture

That At Best We Garden And Become Real
Christmas Trees of LoVE iN Peace LiGHTinG
Continuously New Colors to Radiate LoVE iN Peace...

When Ya Become Effective, Indeed, it is An Overall Real Stellar Experience...

Yet We Do LiVE iN A World, Where God is the Money We Make To Consume The Most 'Things;'

(Keep Pulling the Lever 'Monkey,' THere is Plenty More Sugar to Consume, Just Never Ending till 'The End')

Gotta Escape
That World
First to

Even Get
Started on

'The Stairway Up;'

Two Paths And So Many More...

And This is Just one Tiny View
From One 'Human Multi-Uni-Verse For Real'...

i've Had Empty Pockets for 113 Months Yet of
Course My Wife Takes Care oF All The STiNKing 'Soylent Green'...

---

the prosperity gospel churches worshipping wealth and condemning the poor to hell for "being out of god's favor" are an abomination to true christians who are pious in its original sense.

One thing I struggle with is that only about 1 percent of the budget so like a penny out of every dollar I think goes to poverty relief at my church.Most of the money is spent on real estate and upkeep and salaries and compensation so I dont think the church building model is a efficient way to help the poor as a Christian.Thas just my 2 cents.My church turned me away and left me homeless on the street when I was needing shelter.So not all churches even take care of their own during difficult times.