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What is your religious belief?
Christian 49%  49%  [ 21 ]
Atheist 28%  28%  [ 12 ]
Other 23%  23%  [ 10 ]
Total votes : 43

naturalplastic
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02 Sep 2023, 8:16 pm

blitzkrieg wrote:
As TwilightPrincess has said, the term Christian is an umbrella term for any Christian denomination, including Catholicism & Protestantism.
.



Thats my point.

Thats what is SUPPOSED to mean obviously- all Christians are "Christians". But in modern America its often used to mean only Protestant Evangelical.

No one comes out and actually says "it now means such and such", but you see things like dating websites where you check boxes to self ID, and they give "Catholic" and "Christian" as seperate boxes to check off to choose from. I had a school assignment to check out dating sites, and I was vicariously offended FOR Catholics seeing that (seeing them classified as something seperate from Christian).



Last edited by naturalplastic on 02 Sep 2023, 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TwilightPrincess
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02 Sep 2023, 8:17 pm

^^ You could just read what I bolded if you like. No one is obligated to read anything on forums.



blitzkrieg
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02 Sep 2023, 8:19 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:
As TwilightPrincess has said, the term Christian is an umbrella term for any Christian denomination, including Catholicism & Protestantism.
.



Duhhhhhh....

Thats my point.

Thats what is SUPPOSED to mean obviously. But in modern America its often used to mean only Protestant Evangelical.

No one comes out and actually says "it now means such and such", but you see things like dating websites where you check boxes to self ID, and they give "Catholic" and "Christian" as seperate boxes to check off to choose from. I had a school assignment to check out dating sites, and I was vicariously offended FOR Catholics seeing that (seeing them classified as something seperate from Christian).


Isn't that the same thing as when people identify as, say, a British person or an English person?

The fact that they are separate options doesn't mean the two things are separate from each other in terms of what they are. They are both Christian religions. It's just a matter of specificity.



TwilightPrincess
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02 Sep 2023, 8:21 pm

blitzkrieg wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
The Book of Mormon was written for Mormons by John Smith. It’s not relevant outside of Mormonism. No other Christian religion follows it. It was nothing to do with the framework of Christianity. It was written in the 19th century. Much of it borrows from the King James Version of the Bible, but some of it gets pretty far out there.

NonChristian societies often have similar values in terms of what’s considered right and wrong.


It was published by Joseph Smith in 1830.

It does take a lot from the King James bible in terms of its structure and narrative, and the Latter Day Saints, who The Book of Mormon is for, follow the idea of Jesus Christ as a saviour, so I don't see how it doesn't share some of the framework of Christianity? At least the new testament part of the bible, anyway.

I would say the religion is an off-shoot of traditional Christianity, updated for 19th century North America.


The Book of Mormon has some pretty whackadoodle stuff in it, such as the prophets coming to the Americas in ancient times (there’s no proof of that and it seems extremely unlikely) and Jesus coming after his resurrection.

The book is poorly written. Smith didn’t translate into English of the time period but into the language of the King James Version of the Bible which is an imperfect translation of ancient texts to begin with. Smith made some of the same mistakes in his writing.



blitzkrieg
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02 Sep 2023, 8:23 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
The Book of Mormon was written for Mormons by John Smith. It’s not relevant outside of Mormonism. No other Christian religion follows it. It was nothing to do with the framework of Christianity. It was written in the 19th century. Much of it borrows from the King James Version of the Bible, but some of it gets pretty far out there.

NonChristian societies often have similar values in terms of what’s considered right and wrong.


It was published by Joseph Smith in 1830.

It does take a lot from the King James bible in terms of its structure and narrative, and the Latter Day Saints, who The Book of Mormon is for, follow the idea of Jesus Christ as a saviour, so I don't see how it doesn't share some of the framework of Christianity? At least the new testament part of the bible, anyway.

I would say the religion is an off-shoot of traditional Christianity, updated for 19th century North America.


The Book of Mormon has some pretty whackadoodle stuff in it, such as the prophets coming to the Americas in ancient times (there’s no proof of that and it seems extremely unlikely) and Jesus coming after his resurrection.

The book is poorly written. Smith didn’t translate into English of the time period but into the language of the King James Version of the Bible which is an imperfect translation of ancient texts to begin with. Smith made some of the same mistakes in his writing. I think revised versions since then are supposed to be more accurate.


I found both of them hard to read/digest, due to the differing language in them, versus today's English.



TwilightPrincess
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02 Sep 2023, 8:25 pm

That’s because Smith was trying to emulate (or was copying) the language of an older work - the King James Version of the Bible.



blitzkrieg
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02 Sep 2023, 8:32 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
That’s because Smith was trying to emulate (or was copying) the language of an older work - the King James Version of the Bible.


Yeah, that makes sense.



naturalplastic
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02 Sep 2023, 8:33 pm

I wouldnt say "the Book of Mormon was written for Mormons".

Its written for everyone (you're supposed to read it and then...go WOW and be won over to converting to Mormonism).

But its the foundational text of Mormonism.

But its not used in any Christian denomination other than Mormonism.

In fact saying its "not used" is an understatement. The two books of the Bible (Old Testament and New) are canon, and you "can neither add nor subtract from the canon". So what Joseph Smith did by publishing the Book of Mormon was to add a whole new third testament...which would is a vile heresy in the rest of Christendom.

As I understand it the Book of Mormon involves Jesus crossing the sea and traveling to Precolumbian America and traveling around preaching to the Aztecs and to the native tribes of north America. And much other sanity impaired "history". Quite condusive to ..making a satirical broadway musical like "the Book of Mormon".

The Koran is kinda similar to the Book of Mormon in that it builds upon the Old Testament and upon the New Testament, but is a whole third book. But it states that THIS third book is "the seal of prophets" (ie you must ADD this third book, but you cant add anything after this).



TwilightPrincess
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02 Sep 2023, 8:40 pm

I remember cute passages in the Qu’ran which said that Allah is all-merciful and all-loving but if you have one thought out of line you’ll burn in Hell for all eternity.

I’m paraphrasing, but that seemed to be the general idea.



Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 02 Sep 2023, 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TwilightPrincess
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02 Sep 2023, 8:42 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
I wouldnt say "the Book of Mormon was written for Mormons".

Its written for everyone (you're supposed to read it and then...go WOW and be won over to converting to Mormonism).

But its the foundational text of Mormonism.

But it’s not used in any Christian denomination other than Mormonism.

Good points.



naturalplastic
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02 Sep 2023, 8:44 pm

Sounds about right. Lol!



TwilightPrincess
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02 Sep 2023, 8:53 pm

Of course, the Old Testament is just as bad. The New Testament isn’t without its issues, but I find it to be the least offensive Abrahamic work.



naturalplastic
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02 Sep 2023, 8:59 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Of course, the Old Testament is just as bad. The New Testament isn’t without its issues, but I find it to be the least offensive Abrahamic work.

Exactly.

The Jewish comedian Lewis Black commented about how nasty God is in the OT, but how in the NT he is "a rather nice guy". And that "maybe he took anger management classes, or maybe the birth of his son calmed him down".



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02 Sep 2023, 9:00 pm

:lol:



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02 Sep 2023, 9:43 pm

Grew up in the IFB sub-denomination. (Independent fundamental baptist)

Left that s**t.

I currently attend a baptist church, but am considering Roman Catholicism conversion.


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02 Sep 2023, 10:08 pm

^ Were you involved in the IBLP?