That slippery word "woke"

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FXE attacks a straw man version of me, and the trained seals bark and clap; disappointing, but hardly unexpected.

@FXE: I'm actually trying to show you a little respect by giving you some substantive answers and explanations of my own background because I think you're misguided rather than stupid, the same reason I'm harsh as I'm more judgemental of people who are capable of better but choose dumb ideologies, e.g. Marxists.

You do know that you're a walking stereotype yourself, right? Seemingly every woke progressive in Seattle grew up in a small town and has horror stories about the church and local right wing as*holes being cruel to them, it's the part where they move and create the exact same system but with different values that drives me insane, along with the inability to see that they've become what they claim to be against.

I'll be more substantial after work hopefully, might have OT this weekend.

After years of being snarky and insulting to anyone who disagrees with you, why do presume I care in the slightest about your background or formative experiences?

Everyone's just a caricature except you. You're deep and everyone who disagrees with you is just a stereotype. I hope you understand why I treat you with so little respect, I'm just returning the respect you display.

The term woke seems to be more of an American term, though media outlets such as GB News in the UK use the term, often, such as with the 'woke watch' segments of news etc.

Do regular people even use the term woke in regular conversation? I have never really heard it outside of media, even in political discussions.

I can't help but notice that not once in this thread has Dox47 actually defined "woke" as it is used now, by conservatives, as opposed to Fnord's original definition.

Also, I wonder what makes Marxism dumb exactly? Something tells me you haven't read Marx at all. (Though in all fairness I've not read much academic anti-marxist writings either)

I'm not trying to insult you btw

I can't even say you're lying here, cause you probably believe it, but you're definitely being ignorant. There's over a decade of my thoughts and interactions archived on WP, I often use it myself to see how my thinking and views have evolved over the years, it's part of what keeps bringing me back, and even a quick perusal will disprove this caricature of me you keep throwing up.

One thing I will note though is that I have definitely taken a much harder line against progressives than I did when I first started posting, and have generally lost patience with them, particularly the morally righteous variety. I'll own that I've become more prickly than I'd like, but years and years of vicious hate directed at me from people who have no clue what they're talking about has taken its toll, both on here and in general. I can recognize where you're coming from when you talk about people around you saying dehumanizing things about you because they don't know who you are because I've experienced it myself, are you capable of similar empathy?

My fourth post in the thread, it's in parentheses.

As to Marx, no, I've not read the original material, just enough of the scholarship surrounding it to be confident in my judgement, though it's track record should speak for itself. The labor theory of value alone ought to disqualify it as a serious economic philosophy, but unfortunately it's very attractive to midwits who think inscrutable theories make them seem sophisticated.

Here, you wrote to FXE:

But then here, you wrote, also to FXE:


You appear to be contradicting yourself here. One place you say they never met a Christian conservative, in person, in their entire lives. Another place you say they grew up with Christian conservatives. Both cannot be true of "seemingly every woke progressive in Seattle," although they could be true of different "woke progressives."

Well Mona, as I've often mentioned, Seattle has changed quite dramatically in the years I've lived in or around it, and that includes the mixture of born and raised locals vs transplants, with different life experience than the locals.

As I've also pointed out before, I find it telling that you only selectively apply this level of scrutiny.

So that explains the apparent contradiction, I guess. If I understand correctly: Years ago you were bothered by people who denounced conservative Christians as terrible people without having met any, whereas, more recently, you've encountered a lot of people who speak from their own experience yet have habits analogous to the ones they complain about? Is that correct?


I think almost everyone is more likely to scrutinize things that look weird to them than to scrutinize things they expect. Do you claim to be different in that regard?

Small correction; I'm snarky and insulting to people who are being dumb, self righteous, ignorant, and/or just plain wrong, especially if they're doing so with unwarranted certainty, people who disagree with me are just more likely to have caught my attention in the first place, but that alone isn't going to draw a rude response from me.

As to my background and why you should care, I personally like to know why people think the way they do and presume I'm not unique in my curiosity, but if you prefer I can also play it as tactical, like it makes you look like a dick swatting away my olive branch, your choice.



Eh, not entirely unfair, my WP critics are a pretty cookie cutter bunch and I've perhaps gotten lazy with overgeneralizing them. It's frustrating though, I put real effort into being informed on every subject I opine on, even if it's just to browse a few Wikipedia articles before hitting "submit", but even that modicum of respect is not returned, and people are angry when I call them out on being uninformed on the subjects they hold strong opinions on. Over 15 years or so, that gets pretty old.



Heh, why should your boos mean anything to me when I've seen what makes you cheer? I only care about insults that land, and yours typically don't, the only thing that pisses me off is that my posts get removed for much milder digs than what you lob at me, even when I know the mods have seen them, but that's a site issue.

Close enough. There's also this mechanism at play that's a variation of the "big sort" that the country has been going through that I call the "progressive ratchet", where a place like Seattle that is seen is very progressive attracts all of these small town progressives who then attempt to make the city even more progressive, creating a political ratcheting effect. We'll see if it's sustainable, even normie liberals are starting to admit that the progressives ruin cities and make them unlivable, so there may be a backlash at some point that counters the effect.



I'm just as interested in what you don't scrutinize as what you do, the pattern reveals a preference. In your case, this "scrutiny" is often packaged with a sudden inability to use search tools, which makes it feel more like a bad faith derailing tactic than a genuine engagement.

What it reveals is what kinds of things seem to me to be obviously true and/or ordinary.


On what specific issues to you feel that I have manifested a "sudden inability to use search tools"?

You're asking me to display an empathy toward you that won't be reciprocated.



Remember, I'm a walking stereotype for my experiences, but you're a complex individual who deserves understanding for yours.



I doubt the sincerity of your olive branch. It seems like you seek to fight with the caricatures of liberals in your head and I'd rather not engage at all. When people engage with you in good faith, you treat them like they're a caricature. Given the attitude and the bad faith, I'm not interested in discussing where we might disagree and why, I'm just telling you why I don't want to engage with you.

If someone is consistently unpleasant towards me there comes a point where I assume I can only expect further unpleasantness from them.