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24 Nov 2023, 8:54 pm

cyberdad wrote:
The Bush administration launched the Gulf war which resulted in 200,000 civilians deaths and neither he nor the republican party were referred to as war criminals.


Dude! Do you live in a bubble?

cyberdad wrote:
As Americans its important to be change you want to see in the rest of the world. It's a bit hard to choose to live as a citizen of a country which has the same record for human rights as Israel (but on sheer volume/scale over a longer historical period much worse than anything Israel ever did) and to make matters worse using your tax dollars to fund Israel's current abuse of Palestinians.


WTF are you on about, are you seriously gatekeeping who can and cannot be outraged and blaming Americans for their government's war crimes. You are a complete [insert the most offensive thing you can think of here]


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cyberdad
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24 Nov 2023, 9:08 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Of course, given the various problems Australia has had, especially regarding their treatment of native people over the centuries, maybe you should focus on that rather than Israeli victims if you are going to apply the same argument to me.


We have and continue to compensate the native people here. They have largely assimilated into Australian society.



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24 Nov 2023, 9:11 pm

cyberdad wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Of course, given the various problems Australia has had, especially regarding their treatment of native people over the centuries, maybe you should focus on that rather than Israeli victims if you are going to apply the same argument to me.


We have and continue to compensate the native people here. They have largely assimilated into Australian society.

Huh. I heard something else from other Australians. Interesting.



cyberdad
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24 Nov 2023, 9:12 pm

Recidivist wrote:
WTF are you on about, are you seriously gatekeeping who can and cannot be outraged and blaming Americans for their government's war crimes. You are a complete [insert the most offensive thing you can think of here]


All I am saying people need to hold their governments responsible before casting judgement on foreign governments. This is an issue for the US where 75 million voted for deranged narcissistic maniac knowing what they were doing but then make fun of North Korean and Russia for having dictators.



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24 Nov 2023, 9:14 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Of course, given the various problems Australia has had, especially regarding their treatment of native people over the centuries, maybe you should focus on that rather than Israeli victims if you are going to apply the same argument to me.


We have and continue to compensate the native people here. They have largely assimilated into Australian society.

Huh. I heard something else from other Australians. Interesting.


The vast majority of aboriginal people are assimilated, There are smaller numbers who live in remote communities who do suffer a lot of health/social disparities but these groups have no political representation and are reliant on the Australian government for social services like free housing, welfare etc...



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24 Nov 2023, 9:16 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Recidivist wrote:
WTF are you on about, are you seriously gatekeeping who can and cannot be outraged and blaming Americans for their government's war crimes. You are a complete [insert the most offensive thing you can think of here]


All I am saying people need to hold their governments responsible before casting judgement on foreign governments. This is an issue for the US where 75 million voted for deranged narcissistic maniac knowing what they were doing but then make fun of North Korean and Russia for having dictators.


Who are these people you refer too? Are they members here?


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24 Nov 2023, 9:45 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
What is BDS and PA?

Boycott, Divest, and Sanction
Palestinian Authority.



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24 Nov 2023, 9:52 pm

I've criticized Israel over its policies in the occupied territories, and its cozying up to the likes of Putin, MBS, and Trump. I will continue to. But I will never say a nation does not have a right to strike back when it is hit with the carnage that we saw 10/7.

I don't want to hear, these people are oppressed, so they have a right to be monsters. What if in an alternate universe, Rosa Parks got on that bus with an explosive vest and blew it up, instead of practicing the civil disobedience What if militants had blown up Little Rock Central High, rather than fighting to integrate it? What instead of a sit in in the Woolworth's in Greensboro, those same people committed a massacre of customers and employees? Where would African-Americans be today? Where would America be today?



MatchboxVagabond
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24 Nov 2023, 10:42 pm

RhodeIslandAspie wrote:
I've criticized Israel over its policies in the occupied territories, and its cozying up to the likes of Putin, MBS, and Trump. I will continue to. But I will never say a nation does not have a right to strike back when it is hit with the carnage that we saw 10/7.

I don't want to hear, these people are oppressed, so they have a right to be monsters. What if in an alternate universe, Rosa Parks got on that bus with an explosive vest and blew it up, instead of practicing the civil disobedience What if militants had blown up Little Rock Central High, rather than fighting to integrate it? What instead of a sit in in the Woolworth's in Greensboro, those same people committed a massacre of customers and employees? Where would African-Americans be today? Where would America be today?

OTOH, this isn't really that much different from South Africa or the US Revolutionary war. And the allies during WWII were only slightly less terrible than the Nazis and Fascists.



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24 Nov 2023, 10:49 pm

Recidivist wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Recidivist wrote:
WTF are you on about, are you seriously gatekeeping who can and cannot be outraged and blaming Americans for their government's war crimes. You are a complete [insert the most offensive thing you can think of here]


All I am saying people need to hold their governments responsible before casting judgement on foreign governments. This is an issue for the US where 75 million voted for deranged narcissistic maniac knowing what they were doing but then make fun of North Korean and Russia for having dictators.


Who are these people you refer too? Are they members here?


No I am speaking generally that US citizens should examine their own countries crimes before casting judgement on Israel following their own experience of a "9-11" which was "10-7". It just comes across as hypocritical.



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24 Nov 2023, 10:55 pm

People, from the US and elsewhere, are perfectly free to cast judgment or express an opinion on whatever they like as long as they abide by whatever laws or rules are in place on the platform they are using. We are all human. Some see the world in terms of people rather than borders.

There's nothing hypocritical in stating an opinion in this case unless one holds a position of power and authority and has directly promoted similar human rights violations. Unless I'm mistaken, none on WP fit that description.

Many Americans who have posted in these threads have said that they disagreed with the way the US carried out the "War on Terror," so it would seem that many if not most who've been posting on the conflict have examined their own country, not that that's a requirement to have an opinion.

Knowing about politics and history will help one to have an informed opinion. If being well-informed were a requirement on WP, we'd have significantly fewer posters in PPR and News than we currently do.



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25 Nov 2023, 12:23 am

TwilightPrincess wrote:
We are all human. Some see the world in terms of people rather than borders.


Actually the majority of Americans are tribal and obsessed with borders. As is the rest of the world.

Staying on this thread, why aren't the "good" Palestinians not saying "its wrong to take hostages" we should see women and children as human beings instead of celebrating killing in the streets.



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25 Nov 2023, 12:47 am

Notice that I used the word "some." It's impossible to know how "the majority" feel on this topic and how "tribal" and "obsessed with borders" they are in comparison to other places.

Why not read back through previous answers you've been given to that question?



IsabellaLinton
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25 Nov 2023, 12:49 am

Maybe cyberdad has never heard of propaganda television.


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25 Nov 2023, 12:56 am

cyberdad wrote:
MatchboxVagabond wrote:
From what I understand, they mostly don't, the two parties that are running things are both minority parties, the fact that they keep being reelected is similar to how the GOP can keep winning elections even though their views are not majoritarian views to have.


The Bush administration launched the Gulf war which resulted in 200,000 civilians deaths and neither he nor the republican party were referred to as war criminals.

Bush Jr. when he launched the Iraq war was called a war criminal. So was Chaney and Rumsfeld.

It would be just as evil if people started ripping down posters of innocent Palestinians who have been killed in this war as the act of ripping down hostage posters is.


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25 Nov 2023, 1:39 am

Well not to be insensitive, like I think it is sh***y for people to pull down the posters. But also what good does putting those posters up in the U.S do? like if they are being held by hamas in palestine or whatever, what in the hell are any of us still in the U.S.A supposed to do to help them? like all the posters in the world can be put up here, but like what is anyone here going to do about it? I don't think Hamas will be moved by people in the the states protesting for their release? so I get it's sh***y to tear the posters down, but also not sure how putting the posters up here really helps any of the hostages in the first place.


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